Julie Bindel & Sharron Davies can't believe women centre their politics around the trans issue

What kind of negotiator starts off with a declaration that they won't play their most effective - if not their only - card?

Exactly. You wouldn't think it would be controversial for women to say "if you want my vote you must recognise women as a sex class".

Artichokeleaves · Today 16:23
women need to start valuing their vote while they still have it, wake up and start being bloody difficult, and make politicians afraid to step any further on them. Seriously

A different political set up I realise, and a specific issue we are not faced with at the moment, but I noticed the aptness of what Biden said yesterday:

This [voting] is the fastest route available," he told reporters at the White House. "It's my hope and my strong belief that women will in fact turn out in record numbers to reclaim the rights that have been taken from them by the court.

wake up and start being bloody difficult, and make politicians afraid to step any further on them. Seriously.
I agree and this is what I would like Julie Bindel or Ruth Serwotka or any gender critical feminist who's still on the left to explain. What kind of negotiator starts off with a declaration that they won't play their most effective - if not their only - card?

I agree with them.
Couldnt be bothered with a lot of the GC movement after half of them went tory.
Its an important issue but its not the only issue

Sharron Davies has today approvingly quote-tweeted far right Holocaust Denier Peter Sweden

I just think there will always be left/right divides in politics. Success for each side comes and goes. But we might have a chance to sort this out. One. And once it’s gone and self-ID established and linguistic and conceptual queering achieved, our rights are gone for good.

It's just another version of 'after all the other problems have been fixed then we'll sort out what women want out of politics'.

Who will be the majority of people struggling to put food on the table in front of their kids and trying to keep them and other cared for people warm this winter? The same ones who have lost access to public spaces and facilities, are being raped in prisons, are being sacked for speaking the truth and refusing to subordinate their sex class to the only other one, and whose kids are being fed garbled fairytails in sex ex while safeguarding is put seconds to the feelings of adult males.

This is like telling slaves that they shouldn't fuss about voting for the end of their slavery, there are much more important things to be politically aware of and care about first. Considering how fast women have lost abortion rights in the past few weeks, women need to start valuing their vote while they still have it, wake up and start being bloody difficult, and make politicians afraid to step any further on them. Seriously.

I tend to agree with them yet I cannot see past those MPs who fail to acknowledge what a woman is. There’s such a weakness there, they are entirely captured and I think if that’s how weak they are on that issue then what the hell are they capitulating on elsewhere. So it tarnished Labour and Lib Dem and of course the bloody Greens for me.

Julie Bindel is and always has been an avowed radical socialist feminist. Or perhaps socialist radical feminist. Either way, this is very unsurprising from her.

Given that JB saw this coming long before most of us did, I'm not sure how anyone can argue that she lacks critical thinking skills. So, if she seriously believes it's possible to win this battle with a Labour or coalition government - and it's not just blind loyalty to the left talking - then I'd like to see her stop pulling rank on Twitter and make the argument.

I am not impressed by the idea that fighting for women's legal existence is a privileged position. However I do accept that the true extent of self ID legislation wouldn't be felt instantly. I think it would be our daughters and grand daughters who would reap the whirlwind. The problem is that by then there would be such a hot mess that I don't know how it could ever be undone. There's certainly no blueprint to follow.

I can understand anyone saying, 'I'm sorry but right now I have got to put food on the table'. It's why it's such a terrible dilemma. What I don't get is the idea that, with all the opposition parties apparently intent on self ID, we can somehow shelve this battle for another day.

If Julie Bindel is seriously proposing this then I would really like her to explain how she sees it working because I may be missing something but from where I'm sitting, it seems extraordinarily naive, which is not a word I normally associate with Julie.

It’s so disingenuous to say we can worry about shining sunlight on “other” issues later when there are children to clothe and feed etc.

All whilst your children are learning a dangerous ideology and being insidiously encouraged to adopt this and “be kind”.

That is precisely why things have advanced as far as they have and our language is being distorted and we are being compelled to say that which isn’t true.

They can vote for whomever they like but my loyalty is not to a party who cannot define what a woman is and centres men and their delusions.

I would just like to challenge this a little. What do you mean, anti-every minority?

The CP has had two women PMs, and it looks like in the running for the next PM are several women and several ethnic minorities, and even a woman who is an ethnic minority.

Something the LP, for all it's efforts, has not replicated.

What's that about then?

The privileged position is pretending people can change sex.

Knowing that sex is real is the opposite of a privileged position.

The thing about living in poverty and deprivation is that you can't pretend material reality doesn't exist. If everything can just be wished away with words, people in the UK wouldn't be living in poor housing, with worse health outcomes than Africa.

You've plainly said exactly what I have wanted to say for some time.
I personally believe this is the foundation. If we cannot name ourselves we cannot begin to address the many issues we women as a class have.

And to add this time and the last few times this has been my single issue to vote on. And as we move on with no sign of the things we want to keep (and had in law til recently) being left alone for us alone, the more determined I get to now have even more. It's no longer enough to just let women have the basics, I want more for us. The pandemic/furlough scheme etc showed there is money, it's there when its deemed important enough. Well now I feel that women are the important ones. I will not be placated with simply having our own few spaces legally bound, with no chance ever of this happening again.
I want more, not sure what "more" is yet but I'm working on a list that will be emailed to various people in power. None of them will read it or give two fucks, but I will at least be trying.

This is starkly put, but it IS the reality. As always these discussions seem to veer into the binary - you either care about one thing or another. It isn't like that is it? But we should ask ourselves, what cost the truth to us. Or for those arguing that people are arguing from a priviledged stance, is truth telling a priviledge? Has it come to that?

‘but our decisions about voting have to take all issues into account.’

I’m sure we all do this. Some of us have decided this is the most important issue to us. That’s our prerogative.

Sorry I disagree. In the UK thankfully no one is starving.

this is such a privileged comment. OK maybe no one is literally dying from lack of calories (although I wouldn't rule that out) but plenty of people are underfed and malnourished. And this will only get worse come the winter and big energy bills.

I agree with both JB and SD, and it's again a very privileged view that they are not 'centering women'. For many women, mostly WC and ethnic minority women and those with insecure citizenship, issues around women only spaces, self ID etc are way, way down the list, after 'what will I eat?' 'can I get medical treatment?' 'will my child get beaten/arrested'.
It's up to those of us with the luxury of not having those worries to keep pushing back against transactivism but our decisions about voting have to take all issues into account.

I agree with this. And if anyone thinks other areas of life are somehow sealed off from the same approach, I believe they would be proved wrong. I don't want to find out what living like that is like though, frankly.

Yes!

MalagaNights · Today 08:31
The lie that men can become woman and we will pretend this is true, so fundamentally undermines truth and reality it is corrupt at the core and cannot be a basis for a functioning society.

It requires an authoritarian regime to ensure the lie is maintained and allows the introduction of any other untruth which must now be adhered to and spoken.

Yes.

MangyInseam · Today 03:50
But I submit it's not a one issue thing by it's very nature. The thing that keeps me up most at night is the authoritarian thought control inherent in the gender woo viewpoint. Freedom of thought and expression is the number one value we have to respect to have a functioning democracy. We see this authoritarianism at work within the LP itself and we can all see the effect on universities, schools, the NHS, the police, among other places.

I very much agree with you.

For me the most central issue is: to have a government which bases it's policy on material reality.

The lie that men can become woman and we will pretend this is true, so fundamentally undermines truth and reality it is corrupt at the core and cannot be a basis for a functioning society.

It requires an authoritarian regime to ensure the lie is maintained and allows the introduction of any other untruth which must now be adhered to and spoken.

The Orwellian nature of the lie and the insistence all join in or be cancelled is the most frightening thing I've seen in politics, and I find it hard to believe it's happening.

Women's rights cannot be protected because of the lie, but once you start lying about material reality anything comes next.

So Julie and Sharon are wrong. This is bigger than even they think.

Kemi Badenoch is now in the leadership race. I will make my decision about which candidate I would vote for in the event of a general election (I’m not a Tory member) on this basis.