Julie Bindel & Sharron Davies can't believe women centre their politics around the trans issue

'Happy to trust them' where have I said that? I said I feel politically homeless.

This is where I always get confused, in Scotland if you're not full on IndyRef will save us! It's 'YOURE AN EVIL TORY' with no actual care or discussion as to why not, and here it seems if you're 'mmmm I don't agree with this TWAW stance' aha! YOU'RE AN EVIL TORY!!

My concern is that some parties that profess to stand up for women really don't. The current Tories love this issue cos its a way of doing 'back to basics' while crowd pleasing the old guard. Have no doubt this comes from the same place as section 28 and the Alton Bill for the Tories and lib dems - a basically small c christian /conservative stance that would have women 'barefoot, pregnant and chained to the kitchen sink' as they used to say. There will be no welfare or services under these parties for women who are not 'nice', successful and well behaved. Look at what they do, not what they say. At least labour and the greens are coming from a good place, where they believe we all have value and are part of a wider community. Tories are ostensibly saying 'only women are women' but for them its the modern way of saying 'get a suit and a haircut boy'

If parties or politicians are pretending they don't know what a woman is, it also makes me wonder who is funding them. Or blackmailing them. Or emotionally manipulating them. Because I doubt the priorities of those 'persons unknown' sit alongside mine.

‘Yet the Conservatives changed tack after pushing the TWAW agenda, and you appear quite happy to trust them.’

The Conservatives are a massive group with differing views. Starmer has said TWAW. He, himself, said this. He’s beyond the pale.

I’m just imagining Starmer actually in power, bringing forward legislation that dismantles all the progress we’ve made. He would undoubtedly introduce self-ID but he’d just be getting started. We’d go backwards on males in female sports. He would push the Cass Review into the long grass. Would he even match what little the Tories have done to combat intact males in female prisons, or would be (like Biden) push for an even more inclusive policy? Who would he appoint to the EHRC? What would happen to single-sex spaces guidance? How would he react to the Forstater judgment? It wouldn’t surprise me if we faced legislation on misgendering, and certainly they would legislate non-binary ‘identities’ into law. We would face ten years of shit, after the ten years of shit we’ve already had, and by then it might be irreversible.

Yet the Conservatives changed tack after pushing the TWAW agenda, and you appear quite happy to trust them.

Wes Streeting did start to give a bit of hope a few months ago, I think he gets it.

Wes is very ambitious and sees the way the wind is blowing. Its naive to trust him, at least until he explains the extent of his involvement with the Labour against transphobia facebbok group which was sent up specifically to expel women guilty of wrong think from the party.

Yeah, I'm a bit tired of JB atm, her lecturing and her thinly veiled sneering at "mothers" or "breeders" as her cohort like to refer to us tbh. Let's face it both her and SD aren't as affected by gender ideology as most - not on a day to day basis, their financial security, age and status protects them. For me "What Is A Woman?" is the most fundamental question affecting mine and my daughter's lives and has been for the last five years. I don't have a RL security network and my daughter has had a very difficult time at school dealing with having additional needs and how gender ideology directly impacts on them. I read an article yesterday written by JB - moaning about the supposed criticism she receives for not having children. The tone and navel gazing really did remind me of how TRA play pretend victim and take pseudo offence at any kind of criticism. I like and respect her and that won't change though. On this though I do not agree with her. I will never vote for a party who have supported this ideology. They disgust me.

My working class Tory MP is also pretty good. Last time they put a Labour candidate in the field here she was practically in college.

Oh I’ll never vote for the BNP because of their racism

it won’t happen…so i quite understand those women saying they won’t vote for labour because of their TWAW stance

I think women should be able to vote for you they want for whatever reason they want, obviously

personally I won’t be voting tory or labour at this point, ive never voted labour so its not a ‘punishment’ vote. But i live in a very safe tory seat so labour won’t get in anyway

No one said this

at all

why do you see the need to lie? And such a silly one that you can be proved wrong on

There seemed to be an underlying presumption that women had come to GC issues in a vacuum with no experience of poverty or other campaigning. All the women I know who care about GC issues came to it alongside their other campaigns whether that be around food poverty; women in prisons and the care system; GRT rights; single parent families; MH care and access; refugees; VAWG.

Labour moved away from prioritising and protecting the working class a long time ago. It's why their vote plummeted in Scotland. They went from conviction politicians to mealy-mouthed sycophants who don't understand or care about their core voters; from representing the working class to lecturing them; and from supporting union leaders to promoting mouthpieces like LOJ. It's not that women don't care about other issues, it's that Labour don't. KS has acted like a caretaker whilst the Tories oversaw one of the worst pandemic responses in the world. Labour has been moving deckchairs on the Titanic.

Everyone here knows who Julie and Sharon are. They don't know who we are. They don't know the issues, the campaigns, the points of deprivation that we're all working on or living in.

It's not for women to hold their noses. It's for any party that wants women's votes, to be a party of integrity. It's on the party to show how much it wants and values over 50% of the population. From Militant days to the present, lefty men have been dangling women's rights and poverty campaigning as treats for later - something they'll get to after the important stuff. Women are finally turning women's issues into a wedge issue. That's a massive opportunity for political parties. And if certain parts of Labour and the Tories would rather lecture us about priorities than admit they know what sex is - then that is on them. It isn't women's fault. It's not for women to fix. There is an open goal. We don't have to move it. The parties just need to kick into it.
And every party has a group of GC members and politicians and MSPs happy to advise on how they can do it.

For me the issue is as others here have said: the position that TWAW is directly inimical to listening to women, who are explaining en masse that this is a category error. If they don’t listen to me about this, they won’t listen to me about anything, so why would I think they could represent me?

I know she called Posie Parker a "thick feck"

😡

well said

I agree with them. But then, I've been an activist for a long time and the other issues that concern me have not gone away...

This.

If a politician won't say biological truth and state facts about it, purely because they're too afraid of a shout group, how the hell will he or she have the courage to stand up against anything? Selling half the population down the river isn't confidence inspiring. I want brave politicians, principled politicians, debating, open to conversation politicians. I can find cowards anywhere, why would I vote for them?

I'm guessing a lot of vocal activists are positioning themselves against the inevitable "you are all right wing bigots " line that will come their way from TRAs and Labour people.

I definitely read it as a plea for nuance and balancing up the pros and cons. When in doubt about the leader or manifesto at election time then looking at your actual candidate is good. My Labour MP is notably silent on the trans issue. Coward? Or like the lot of them, a person who wants power?
What Keir lacks is a forceful and informed enforcer. Blair had Alastair Campbell and Peter Mandelson who rammed home to Labour what policies would get them elected, the Tories went for Boris for exactly the same reason - no policies but bags of personality that got the vote.
Chasing youth votes is essentially a losing strategy as there aren’t that many of them and they don’t reliably turn out. Weirdly and probably for one a v short blip, Momentum did it for Corbyn but obviously not enough.
However, a sop to the TRA lobby is easy - far easier than health/social care or the economy.
When it comes to it, I’ll be trying to centre women in all aspects and hoping that my male MP doesn’t see them as a side show

I mean I don’t disagree with them. Especially when it comes to elections not everyone can afford to be a single issue. Plenty of people agree with the tories about TWANW, but they equally don’t believe the tories are actually doing anything for women, and/or can’t afford more years of austerity.

If anyone wants to be a single issue voter on this, or many other issues that’s up to them, but personally I think there’s just so much more at stake.

Exactly this for me. If you can lie about something that is so obviously (a) untrue (b) unfair and (c) uncomplicated, I'm not going to trust you to run my dishwasher let alone the country.

Scared of people acting out within your own party? Well, how are you going to manage China?

Scared of speaking the truth? Then how are you going to tackle climate change or the actual causes of social inequality? (Hint: you won't find the answer down the back of your postmodernist sofa)

I see the gender issue as a massive red flag. Similarly, politicians who have spoken out on this specific matter, when it's unfashionable, have shown integrity and an ability to think critically. It's been very eye opening across the political spectrum. I'll never again affiliate myself with one party.

It’s true that I wouldn’t vote for Putin if he promised me he would recognise the reality of female existence and protect children. That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t vote for Javid, because... well, it’s obvious, really.

We are all entitled to voice our opinions, especially here but some people have stronger personalities and are willing and able to confront the pushy Man-in-a-frock in the loo.
Some like me are a little timid IRL. I want to keep the protections and conventions that I grew up with.
That means not being browbeaten in everyday life so it is a thread that runs through everything, it affects my working and it certainly affects family and poverty.

I agree with them, I would never vote Tory even if their manifesto said that they would repeal the GRA (dreaming, I know!). The more difficult choice is whether to vote LD (the only potential challenger to our Tory MP) or spoil my ballot. I’m a natural Labour voter but they can’t win where I live (and they’d give me the same dilemma as the LDs!).

But the great thing about a democracy is that we don’t all have to agree. Some women can choose a single issue, some can look at a wider picture. Neither is right or wrong, just different.