Julie Bindel & Sharron Davies can't believe women centre their politics around the trans issue

@LangClegsInSpace

Of course it's the leadership of the Tory party that's at stake at the moment. However if Labour felt themselves united and in a good place, they could call a vote of no confidence and go for a GE.

I still dislike the fact that it took Labour lords to ensure GC women had a stall albeit on the periphery when the party itself denied them that at the forthcoming party conference. That they have allowed GC women to be pilloried from within the party without defending them.

The Greens have an issue, too, though it looks as if there's a reverse there. LibDems ditto.

No party has produced anything solid in terms of policy for the future. A huge number of us are in "safe" seats but then look at the Red Wall.

The most we can do at the moment is write letters outlining our concerns on any issue to our MPs, councillors and parties.

she would do best to have a real conversation with KJK

I agree with what you say @Datun . Still that tweet feels to me like one more person telling women to stfu. The fact that it comes from JB has really upset me. She is unlikely to vote for whoever is the next tory leader. Not sure why she had to have a pop at women using the opportunity to raise the issue. Why am I posting here? Simply, I am fed up of being told to be silent by those who are not hearing the women speak on this - especially if they claim to be supportive.

But presumably that's a man not a woman? I don't understand why you knowing a nice man has anything to do with women's rights?

I do sort of agree with JB. It's incredibly important and I think it's a good gauge of honesty - as to how many people will say TWAW but not be able to say what they even think they mean by that. But sadly I assume most of what is said by these parties are in some way dishonest. If one party was clear on their position on this they would go up in my estimation, but it would be weighted against other factors.

It's not the fact that a potential PM says TWAW. It's the lack of criticality, the casual disregard for women, the wild-eyed passion, the refusal to listen, to engage in discussion and, quite simply, to provide reasons which seem to go with the position. These are not qualities I want to see in the person running the country.

There are many other reasons not to support someone, but a refusal to acknowledge material reality is a clincher.

Yes, basically this.

The NHS is one of the most important things to me, so although women's issues aren't forefront they are a big part in how the NHS is run, and funding sterilisation of gay children also is a worry to me.

I really think we need to end the comforting little fairy tale that Labour would be nicer to us poor people because the evidence is to the contrary.

I've seen a lot of this thinking - saying they'll obviously do things they've never even hinted they would and who ever gets in will be facing some serious problems and events are always potentially there to trip them all up.

Women's rights has huge impact on many areas - I don't think either left or right in UK politics has dealt well this the current issues around them - conservatives have just been less bad lately.

I notice the OP hasn't come back.

There are a lot of threads like this. Wind 'em up and let 'em go.

Fortunately it doesn't really work like that, because the women here are generally far too moderate and switched on. Lots of nuanced posts, analysis and calm reflection.

And, for the record OP, even if I might disagree with one or two well known women campaigning for women's rights I'll still be bunging them as much money as I can, for when their feminism needs it.

Julie Bindel having a political opinion doesn't stop Nottingham County Council being discriminatory twats.

How would you know OP is a woman?
And I'm just wondering if their motivation is to sow discord amongst GC feminists rather than to actually discuss this, given they haven't been back to the thread

Yep, I agree with them. I've supported a loved one through the current PIP process (and yes, I know PIP as a concept was introduced by Labour but the current process is as mandated by the Tories) and I don't know how anyone who has been through it and seen how disabled people are treated like the shit on someone's shoe could vote for a party who thinks that's not just acceptable, but a desirable state of affairs.

Unfortunately I can't vote for any of the so-called 'progressive left' parties either since the ability to define 'woman' in policy-making is also pretty fucking fundamental, especially in areas such as healthcare and justice. So I'm politically homeless and will be reduced to spoiling my ballot paper.

To be fair to Cameron and Osbourne - neither of whom I particularly like - their policy was to balance the books not austerity itself. The austerity was a symptom of the fact the country was running too far and too fast into debt as the out-going Labour minister at the treasury helpfully pointed out in that famous note he left behind him.

The Tories aren't mean they're just more likely to make the hard choices. The reason the Conservative Party is so angry at Boris, apart from the lying, is that he would not make hard choices. Too desperate to be liked.

I agree with those who say this issue is foundational. It is NOT a trans issue. It is the recognising of women's language and right to be seen as a sex class. JB knows that. I am irritated by this comment from her. Loads of working class people - women and men vote conservative for many reasons. I am from a poor background of people who voted tory. I never have but I will vote in the interests of women. No-one should be hungry and without resources, that should concern us all. But this purity spiralling in left/right politics really pisses me off. If this period in history is teaching us anything, it is to discuss issues and not ideologies. BJ for all his faults promised an uplevelling which is why many poorer people voted him in.

And the current PM is being ousted for being a liar. So how can anyone vote for Starmer who objected to BJ because of his lies. Starmer also lied in his campaigner to get Corbyn elected - he knew Corbyn would be a disaster and that the antisemiticism was worsening under him but nope Starmer kept on going.

I think Starmer is a far worse liar than Boris.

Can I please point out Labour are not going to do anything about poverty. Current fuel/cost of living support is £1200 for people on UC and other benefits, it may end up being more. Labour said they would use a windfall tax which would have worked out around £90. None of the last few Labour election manifestos have increased welfare payments, for example, and Rachel Reeves has repeatedly said she would cut benefits and crack down on claimants. Austerity is over, it was David Cameron's and George Osborne's political ideology and dumped while Theresa May was PM. I really think we need to end the comforting little fairy tale that Labour would be nicer to us poor people because the evidence is to the contrary.

I agree with them, I centre my politics around environment & climate issues, which often puts me in conflicting situations 😀

"My contention is that good men (not bad men) consistently acting upon that position [imposing “the good”] would act as cruelly and unjustly as the greatest tyrants. They might in some respects act even worse. Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under of robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies."

"The robber barons cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some points be satiated; but those who torment us for their own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to heaven yet at the same time likely to make a Hell of earth."

— C.S. Lewis

I think what she’s saying is, “GC women who are Tory members, don’t vote for Suella Braverman.”

She's entitled to her opinion. I wasn't sure what she was getting at really as I've no control over who the Tories vote for as leader. Doesn't stop me having an opinion, ie not Penny Mordaunt.
I do respect Julie for all her work, but it did seem a bit ironic she was ticking me off for being unhappy with Labour in the week I bunged her a tenner to take a Labour council to task for discriminating against her?!
We all have our red lines, mine is self ID, so if Labour support it, I cant vote for them.

I think reframing it as 'single issue' voting is a deliberate misrepresentation tbh. Women are still most likely to be murdered, sexually assaulted, paid less, have the bulk of caring duties; live in substandard, overcrowded housing; be threatened online, be misdiagnosed for healthcare, head single parent households; be under-represented on boards, committees and in promoted posts; live in poverty, etc, etc. Almost every aspect of every day is impacted by our sex and how that sex is perceived in a patriarchy. Of course, that will impact voting intentions.

I said earlier I couldn't understand the timing of JB's comment. Now, I'm wondering if it wasn't so much about Boris as about the findings of the investigation into Starmer and Rayner and the lockdown rules. If KS and AR hadn't been cleared, they were going to resign. On past evidence, there are female Labour MPs that certain GC voices would want to become Labour leader. But those female Labour MPs have thrown women under the bus time and again. It would definitely suit some people if we all decided to conveniently forget that. Interesting that it's viewed as easier to ask women to forget than to ask those politicians to be honest about sex.

Nor can I
Trans issue affect a very small number of people
When people vote they consider economy taxation employment etc
Trans issues do not affect the overwhelming majority of the electorate
Most of whom are simply notinterested

@Live4weekend

The time to worry about getting carried away with our own radical success isn’t yet upon us.

TWAW is a lie, a harmful obsence lie that destroys women's rights, destroys our ability to point out harms to women, that put women at risk, make us second class citizens, activily causes us harm by ignoring differences in medicine and risks due to product design. It also shows politicians who are prepared to ignore evidence or think critically and refuse to stand up to a baying mob.

Well said.

I imagine that Bindel is worried that this is becoming a right wing issue.

And the TrAs are being relatively successful implying that it's an extremist position.

It's not a right wing issue / US Republican issue.

The moderate GCs are maybe trying to take back a little control which seems a sensible thing to do.

I agree with EdgeOfACoin. There is so much more to all of this than "trans issues".

I thought it was a strangely antagonistic post from Julie Bindel. Why start with 'some of you are going to hate me'? thereby conflating disagreement with hate when it's something women are accused of so often on social media?

Exactly this.

This is a tory leadership election, voted on by tory MPs and in the final round, by tory party members.

And it is 100% guaranteed that the winner will be a tory