Advice wanted regarding right to single sex changing facilities

I suppose my question in reply would be

"If TW are women and can choose from all three facilities, where do the females who can only access female only spaces go please?"

And wait to hear that actually, the 'inclusion' is of the female-exclusionary type. Which is not inclusion but just good old misogyny.

The thing is though that the 'wish to be inclusive' is a #fail.

They're not being inclusive to many females by insisting that males must be allowed to stuff themselves wherever they choose regardless of impact on others. Especially females with disabilities, females of faith and some cultures, who are protected under the EqA2010 which requires non discriminatory blanket policies.

Once they know that, they're flat out lying about 'inclusive'.

It’s a business:

one trans persons monthly fee over x number of women who cancel their subs and demand refunds.

ask the person on question to respect the wishes of the women to have their right to a single sex facility.

Mind me asking which area of the country this is? Am thinking of joining a similar sounding place and don't want to encounter males in the female changing areas.

'why would you exclude 50% of the population to include less than 1%?' Business owners need to think carefully about this because women will vote with their feet and 'being kind' (to everyone except women obviously) doesn't pay the bills.

Also point out the plain, ugly sexism of this.

It is more important that male people have their first choice from everything than that some female people have anything at all . That isn't inclusion in any way, shape or form, that's just flat out sexist discrimination, plain sex based thinking that says Y chromosomes always must trump X ones.

Male people have two options. They are fully covered. If they insist on using female spaces and excluding female people from any access at all, and cannot summon up any sense of care, responsibility or you know, actual understanding of what 'inclusion' means? Then yes, it's time that legal gatekeeping became involved. As it has to when people cannot be relied upon to respect other people's rights and needs.

Just about to mention Bannatyne's

Tell her about Bannatyne’s gyms which do still have single sex changing rooms. She’s lost you, she will lose others to businesses like Bannatyne’s, and losing business is the only way they will listen.

Sorry it's ended up like this OP, predictable by the sound of the owner but still. I do think generally it's the 'inclusivity' thing we need to focus on in these situations though. As soon as it's quoted we need to point out that being inclusive to male bodied people in women's spaces is excluding many women, and that a third space is still being inclusive, to everyone. Where appropriate ask the question 'why would you exclude 50% of the population to include less than 1%?' Business owners need to think carefully about this because women will vote with their feet and 'being kind' (to everyone except women obviously) doesn't pay the bills.

Do point out that you have been excluded.

And that you will be seeking legal advice as you have a protected characteristic and their policy is exclusionary towards many females in order to put a higher value on a small number of entitled and selfish males, who want what they want and could not care less about answers that work for the sex they identify as.

Obviously whether or not you choose to actually follow through is up to you, but do make this sexist muppet of a gym aware that they may very well end up in legal trouble if one of the females they exclude has the time, money and will to fight.

And will do it without a rich and slightly insane bunch of phenomenally misogynistic charities bankrolling them too.

If you want to carry on challenging it, try raising awareness of the mixed sex changing room policy - local papers, local news websites etc.- spreading your concern at lack of women only spaces. And hope it doesn’t get binned on the basis of being transphobic - which sadly is a real danger. I wrote to my local hospital and local paper about single sex wards and got ignored (hospital) and brushed off (local paper). But at least I know I tried and may yet revisit the issue.

I remember browsing a trans support site, a transwoman with a recent GRC was joining a public pool / gym and asked the community for advice. She (the TW) asked something along the lines of is it ok to use the women's to change, they would not be nude, but arrive in gear / swimsuit and if they had to change use a towel. How should they approach the managers to ask permission.
So a reasonable sounding person (leaving aside how we feel).
The answers we are along the lines of - absolutely don't ask, you have a GRC and legally entitled to be there so just go in and threaten them if they stop you....

Bannatyne's Gyms are women only changing; third space for trans people.

If I were you I would tell them that they need to make it clear on the changing room door what their policy is. So that women can understand and decide if they’re ok with it. I would also spread the word yourself.

Make sure you tell them why, and that you'll be taking your business to one that respects the privacy and dignity of ~50% of their members, and that you'll recommend that one to your friends/family/colleagues.

If there's an adequate third space then that is the ideal scenario. Those who are transgender, gender fluid or needing to assist an older person (than 8) of the opposite sex should be provided with a space they can feel comfortable in without upsetting the other customers. Most public facilities provide this or a changing village with individual cubicles solving this issue. It's happened to me in a hotel swimming pool - 6'2+ full make up, long flowing hair (beautiful actually) and a rather substantial male member right next to me changing . I wasn't alone, i didn't feel threatened but I did feel awkward partly because she/he didn't forewarn me, the voice was deepish but not a giveaway for being trans (think Fiona Bruce's voice). I'm not a prude and regularly holiday in Germany swimming naked, but I don't want to be shocked if that makes sense and I had my girls with me who were primary aged

The 'be kind' thing usually means a well intentioned person who hasn't thought this through.

It's like the whole 'oh if you only knew my lovely friend Sue who's a TW'

Yeah, well meet my lovely friend Wendy who's Autistic, and can't use a mixed sex space. And here's my lovely friend Andrea who was throttled by her ex and can't deal with undressing or being vulnerable in a mixed sex space and probably never will do, and my other lovely friend Sarah who was a victim of sustained CSA and also can't undress when a male stranger is around, and my lovely friend Zarah who is unable to use a mixed sex space because of her faith and culture, and whose male relatives will ban her from coming swimming at all if they know there will be male people in what they believe to be a female only space. They're all lovely.

So why does Sue get to say Sue will not use the available gender neutral space but has to be in the female only space, and that Wendy, Andrea, Sarah and Zarah can just get out of Sue's life and stop having any access at all? Where is Sarah's kindness? Where is the owner's kindness enabling Sarah in this? And right behind Sarah is Luna, who has a beard and smirks while walking around naked in the female changing rooms and is very clear that whatever Sarah gets to do, Luna gets to do too, because TWAW.

'Be kind' is lazy sentiment devoid of brain or actual values. Boundaries are a key part of any good social relationships.

IMO, if there is a sign saying women's, female, a picture etc then it is reasonable to assume the provider has exercised single-sex provisions under the EA2010 (see exemptions) so if they allow adult males to use the space they could be breaking the law because you would not expect to see a member of the opposite sex in there.

Ultimately they will need to decide whether they want to respect the dignity and privacy and safety of their female customers, or not.

Well done for raising it, OP. I am sure there will be others who are not comfortable doing so, and who will be more inclined to just leave. I anticipate this happening more and more as changing rooms become more 'gender inclusive'. This will of course embolden any male who wishes to access women's spaces - I would perhaps suggest to your gym owner that if the spaces are to be mixed sex this should be clearly signed. This would be clearer and probably safer for women than current arrangement.

If the owner is nervous about protected characteristics (gender reassignment), ask her if she has considered the impact on women with cultural and religious barriers to shared-sex spaces. And it's not just Muslim women - observant Jewish women and some Christian sects are unable to use mixed sex facilities too - so this is a consideration, whatever area of the country you are in, and even if there aren't many Muslim women locally.

Basically, she needs to understand that allowing TW to use women's spaces isn't a Get Out of Jail Free card, if she is worried about accusations of discrimination.