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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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waterbabys · 07/07/2022 09:18

So sounds like BoJo is finally about to be dragged out and I'm wondering who would be best to replace him in terms of being sympathetic to a GC's point of view?

I was thinking Savid Javid potentially? Any thoughts from anyone else?

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achillestoes · 11/07/2022 09:57

Owen Jones actually trying to get Grant Shapps a bit of traction by echoing him on Jeremy Vine.

achillestoes · 11/07/2022 09:40

@MarshaBradyo

They are, possibly because people misunderstand or simplify their priorities. There are loads of affluent Red Wall voters, lots of people in rural and coastal communities, small business owners, fairly socially conservative (small c) people, people who resent high immigration, and at the same time there are big communities in northern cities who are relatively cosmopolitan and more ‘woke’, if you like. I think the real divide is urban rural, and Johnson was able to speak to both sides of that divide, to some extent.

achillestoes · 11/07/2022 09:37

She made some sort of joke about going to Beijing. It’s weak sauce, to be fair.

Mennex · 11/07/2022 09:34

What was the pork markets thing?

MarshaBradyo · 11/07/2022 09:32

Red wall voters are hard to gauge - Johnson was elite as anything but won votes

Any sniff of left shifting away from wc with the wrong candidate doesn’t go well

I don’t know people who live there though I’m London centric so would be interested in hearing from people who do

achillestoes · 11/07/2022 09:27

They don’t say what it is - lots of stuff about Truss being stupid and her saying “pork markets”, which I admit is funny. But yes I think Sunak can be more easily positioned as very wealthy (he is), previously a non-dom and actual Green card holder when he was an MP, and someone without the leadership experience (he was only Chancellor because Javid wouldn’t stay in the role and before that he had no ministerial experience). I hate to say this because I personally think it’s irrelevant, and the Tories have a diverse contest, but it’s also possible they think he’ll win less Red Wall votes because of his heritage.

MarshaBradyo · 11/07/2022 09:23

achilles is there a sense of why? Is it down to the wealth issue

achillestoes · 11/07/2022 09:21

From the reaction in the Twitter-sphere, the left seem to think Starmer can beat Rishi Sunak, but they really don’t want it to be Truss.

achillestoes · 11/07/2022 09:16

Badenoch is excellent, but she will lose (IMO) to Truss’s greater leadership experience. Mordaunt is also a good quality candidate but her flip-flopping on women’s rights and that awful video have ruined her chances.

Manderleyagain · 11/07/2022 09:12

Beaverman is now saying we should leave the ECHR which I don't agree with, so I wouldn't vote fir her if I had a vote.

Gove has apparently backed Kemi Badenoch!

Penny Maudant has started trying to push back against #anybutpenny etc saying she isn't woke, she knows what a woman is, she's a biological woman. She tried to take responsibility for putting 'mother' back on the maternity bill when in fact she fought hard against it. It's a battle line between her and Suella braverman.

There are lots of other policy areas to hear about, but it's amazing that they all feel they have to address where they stand on this issue. We have made this an issue which takes up space at the centre if politics.

And the 'we' includes us all who have talked here laying down the points, explaining the problems with going along to be kind. And anyone who has contributed to a crowd funder, filled in a consultation, written to their mp. As well as the brave women who have put themselves in the public eye.

achillestoes · 11/07/2022 08:51

Truss’s campaign video is very good.

achillestoes · 10/07/2022 18:30

Was watching the Andrew Neil Show and those commentators think it’s likely to come down to Sunak/Truss.

abc5432 · 09/07/2022 21:20

There's one in the Telegraph too:
'Rishi Sunak has promised to crack down on gender neutral language if he becomes the next prime minister, as he declared “we must be able to call a mother a mother”.

The former Chancellor announced the first policy of his leadership campaign would be an intervention in the culture wars - a topic he usually avoids.

Mr Sunak told the Mail on Sunday he would reverse “recent trends to erase women via the use of clumsy, gender neutral language” and argued that “we must be able to call a mother a mother and talk about breastfeeding”.

Other candidates, including Suella Braverman and Kemi Badenoch, have also emphasised the importance of cracking down on woke culture in their pitches for the leadership.

The announcement came after Mr Sunak was criticised for saying he would not immediately cut taxes as prime minister because they could “leave our children worse off tomorrow”.

Liz Truss, Nadhim Zahawi and Sajid Javid are all expected to run on a low-tax platform.

But Mr Sunak is also thought to have taken a first mover advantage by announcing his campaign on Friday with a slick video that emphasised his family background and economic credentials.

His campaign has pledged to “restore trust, rebuild the economy and reunite the country” and has garnered 10,000 online signups in the first 24 hours.

‘Biology is critically important’
Although he has generally avoided wading into the culture wars, Mr Sunak has previously said he thinks that government policy on toilets and transgender people participating in sports should be led by biology.

“You need to have compassion for those thinking about their identity and thinking about what that means for them, their families as they’re potentially going through a change and we need to be compassionate and understanding about that,” he said in April.

“And we also have to have respect, in particular for views of women who are anxious that some of the things they have fought really hard for and rights that are important to them will be eroded.

“We need to have respect for that point of view.

“Biology is critically important as we think about some of those very practical questions.”

Writing in The Telegraph, Mr Sunak received the backing of Bim Afolami, a Conservative MP who resigned his position as a party vice-chair this week over the handling of the Chris Pincher scandal.

“We need a prime minister who can get our country through an economic crisis, and help implement a dynamic low tax economy for the long term,” he said.

“We need a prime minister who has the experience to rise to the challenges we face, and seize the incredible opportunities before us.

“And we need a prime minister who can unite the Party, unite the country, and beat Labour.

“That man is Rishi Sunak.”

ScrollingLeaves · 09/07/2022 21:16

Manderleyagain - Today 21:01
I can access it. Do you know why you can’t.?
Would it be against copyright for me to copy and paste it?

Manderleyagain · 09/07/2022 21:01

A very relevant article by Rishi sunsk, but I can't access it! Apparently he's making women's rights a top priority.

www.mailplus.co.uk/edition/news/politics/200162/exclusive-womens-rights-top-priority-for-sunak

blahblahblahspoons · 08/07/2022 01:06

But though it may be over simplistic on my part, I can’t help but think that any any government just repeating mantras and implementing stonewall type agendas might not be very good at solving other issues anyway.

It's definitely not overly simplistic.

Labour has shown they are more interested in repeating mantras than facing complicated real world realities such as male rapists in women's prisons, men in women's sports and mixed sex (by stealth) school toilets against a backdrop of increasing sexual assault against girls in school and period shaming. For example they're more interested in trotting out TW are W - which doesn't even make sense in itself because if they're literally W what are they transing to or away from - than having discussions about all these issues. They're more invested in labelling 'bigot' anyone trying to raise these difficult real world issues than discussing the women and children who are at risk or being hurt.

So it really doesn't inspire confidence in any kind of meaningful reality-based governance.

I don't want them to identify their way out of rising fuel and food costs, I want them to face up to and do something about reality. If they can deny reality about something as basic as sexual dimorphism and biological fact in humans then presumably they can deny reality about poverty or the state of the NHS too.

ScrollingLeaves · 08/07/2022 00:27

Kemi Badenoch answering Caroline Noakes

ScrollingLeaves · 07/07/2022 22:32

achillestoes · Today 21:02
Re Finding out more about Kemi Badenoch

Start with her last appearance in front of Caroline Noakes at the WESC.

That was certainly memorable.

Covidagainandagain · 07/07/2022 22:04

TheLassWiADelicateAir · 07/07/2022 21:59

There hasn't been any serious call to roll back abortion rights since the reduction to 24 weeks from 28.

Nadine Dorres gets criticised on here for campaigning against abortion. She clearly isn't. She's expressing her own view that 20 weeks should be the "on demand" limit but that's very far from campaigning against abortion. Quite the opposite as she'd do away with the 2 doctor rule.

Yeah to be fair mine was a more general remark than a specific concern, so I will stop going on about it now as I don't want to derail a thread about a far more pressing issue

ScrollingLeaves · 07/07/2022 22:03

DeadbeatYoda· Today 19:18
Would I vote for an entity that I truly believed would be best for education. Public health, my Childrens' future but
but who didn't support one other stances take? Yes

I understand you are saying that in weighing the issues important to you in balance you would not allow one thing to upset the more important whole.

For me though the priorities you mention, of education, public health, our children’s future are inextricably linked to ‘the one issue’.

On the most basic level, I find the infiltration of substitute words, intended to obfuscate, lacking in logic, euphemistic or misleading in order to manipulate - abhorrent. It is against what education stands for. It is also deeply damaging and part of thought control.

But also, I don’t want a child to go to school and start to wonder what sex they are if they don’t seem be quite the same as everyone else just because certain adults are pushing an agenda. I don’t want anyone as they grow up being coerced into thinking they have to be sexually attracted to someone to whom they have no orientation.

Public health is an extremely worrying issue. But to feed the idea in any way to children that someone should cut off body parts or stop their puberty; or write NHS pamphlets that remove the word woman or talk about ‘sex assigned at birth’ is going to make physical and mental health even worse.

For me children’s future is very tied in with ‘this one issue’.

If one absolutely had to choose between that and poor children not being given any chance to flourish at all because they are starving, have no decent home, no good schools in their area, no future training; a life of racial abuse, or their piece of this earth either burning up or drowning, I agree maybe the one issue would have to go.

But though it may be over simplistic on my part, I can’t help but think that any any government just repeating mantras and implementing stonewall type agendas might not be very good at solving other issues anyway.

TheLassWiADelicateAir · 07/07/2022 22:00

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bafcd91c-fd52-11ec-88db-ae1b6b9bdd3e?shareToken=93acaa85eb0af0b4b0a00cf0e3c7ca25

Sorry Nadine Dorres article.

TheLassWiADelicateAir · 07/07/2022 21:59

There hasn't been any serious call to roll back abortion rights since the reduction to 24 weeks from 28.

Nadine Dorres gets criticised on here for campaigning against abortion. She clearly isn't. She's expressing her own view that 20 weeks should be the "on demand" limit but that's very far from campaigning against abortion. Quite the opposite as she'd do away with the 2 doctor rule.

Covidagainandagain · 07/07/2022 21:53

TheLassWiADelicateAir · 07/07/2022 21:41

Raab, Bravermaman and Javid have voted pro life a few too many times for my liking, but not always

When?

Here are their voting records. A green count means approval from Right to Life. None of them got ringing endorsements. And voting against keeping telemedication doesn't mean someone is anti-abortion. Andrea Leadsom voted against it but she was one of Stella Creasey's supporters in the NI campaign.

righttolife.org.uk/votes/Bromsgrove/Sajid-Javid

righttolife.org.uk/votes/Esher-and-Walton/Dominic-Raab

righttolife.org.uk/votes/Fareham/Suella-Braverman

Interestingly I used the same source but got different results, I'm not sure which are more up to date to be fair.

Javid has still voted pro life more than pro choice as has Braverman,

Raab seems fairly neutral overall, to be fair so I will take that back.

TheLassWiADelicateAir · 07/07/2022 21:41

Raab, Bravermaman and Javid have voted pro life a few too many times for my liking, but not always

When?

Here are their voting records. A green count means approval from Right to Life. None of them got ringing endorsements. And voting against keeping telemedication doesn't mean someone is anti-abortion. Andrea Leadsom voted against it but she was one of Stella Creasey's supporters in the NI campaign.

righttolife.org.uk/votes/Bromsgrove/Sajid-Javid

righttolife.org.uk/votes/Esher-and-Walton/Dominic-Raab

righttolife.org.uk/votes/Fareham/Suella-Braverman

RogersOrganismicProcess · 07/07/2022 21:19

RogersOrganismicProcess · 07/07/2022 21:11

Will do thanks

Formidable 💪yep, she’d get my vote. She was self assured, honest, respectful and unflappable.

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