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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Forstater judgment tomorrow

721 replies

achillestoes · 05/07/2022 19:06

In case we hadn’t had enough drama.

Good luck, Maya.

OP posts:
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TheBiologyStupid · 06/07/2022 22:27

RedToothBrush · 06/07/2022 22:24

Anyone looking forward to the glorious moment that Stonewall get taken to court and get pwned?

Cos its gonna happen isn't it?

Allison Bailey is already on it, of course...

Cismyfatarse · 06/07/2022 22:25

The way I saw it described as she has won the gold so doesn't also take home the silver and bronze.

Not a lawyer so don't know if that is correct but she has WON!!

RedToothBrush · 06/07/2022 22:24

Anyone looking forward to the glorious moment that Stonewall get taken to court and get pwned?

Cos its gonna happen isn't it?

ThickCutSteakChips · 06/07/2022 22:24

Cuck00soup · 06/07/2022 20:10

I don't even have a O level in law.

But even my non legal brain can get itself around the scenario where if A is found guilty of murdering B, A is not also subsequently found guilty of their manslaughter too.

--Waits to be told I'm wrong

What the actual heck is this text size about?!

WeeBisom · 06/07/2022 22:22

Sorry if this has already been said, but the way employment tribunals work is you usually try several different legal strategies/ arguments in the alternatives. So you might have direct discrimination as your primary claim, then in the alternative indirect discrimination, or harassment, or victimisation. Direct discrimination is the hardest thing to prove and win in employment claims, and it is not unusual to see the tribunal award indirect discrimination instead. Maya didn't need to win all of her arguments, as you only need to convince the tribunal of one in order to get damages. This is as strong a win as you can get in an employment tribunal context (if you read the judgment practically everything Maya's barrister said was picked up and endorsed by the tribunal.) So Maya won her claim, and the other side will have to pay her costs and damages for discriminating against her. She doesn't get her job back as relations between the employer and herself have irrevocably broken down (due to her being discriminated against.) I just hate this 'fake news' percolating that Maya has somehow not fully won because not all of her points were taken up. It was redundant! She had already won!

Roseglen84 · 06/07/2022 22:21

ShirleyPhallus · 06/07/2022 22:14

My god, India Willoughby is coming out with some absolutely batshit stuff. Saying that this compares to 1930s Nazi germany for trans people?!

When will these people realise it is about women, not everything is centred on trans.

India has previously claimed that India has a cervix.....not sure how that happened unless India purchased one on the internet and carries it around in a handbag or something - so we can be excused for thinking India's grasp on reality is tentative at best.

ShirleyPhallus · 06/07/2022 22:14

My god, India Willoughby is coming out with some absolutely batshit stuff. Saying that this compares to 1930s Nazi germany for trans people?!

When will these people realise it is about women, not everything is centred on trans.

Cuck00soup · 06/07/2022 22:02
Grin
PearlClutch · 06/07/2022 21:31

You know what they say. Go big or ... don't.

SpongeBobJudgeyPants · 06/07/2022 21:27

It is one of life's many crushing disapointments that Cuckoo doesn't know how to replicate the big writings! Grin

SpinningForTheWorld · 06/07/2022 21:25

This has been the most extraordinary day all round, and then we get big writing. It's too much.

SirSamVimesCityWatch · 06/07/2022 21:23

Screenshot of your post compared to the previous.

The best bit was that for a little while, from my "threads I'm on" page, I could just see the first line of your post in massive letters, declaring "I DONT EVEN HAVE AN O LEVEL IN LAW" Grin Grin Grin

Forstater judgment tomorrow
Cuck00soup · 06/07/2022 21:13

Ooh what is big writings? I haven't got that on my screen.

It's not because I have big font size turned on on my phone is it?

Sorry I can't tell you the secret 🤐

SpongeBobJudgeyPants · 06/07/2022 21:04

SirSamVimesCityWatch · 06/07/2022 20:45

How did you make the writing go massive, @Cuck00soup ??

Me too. I'm well jell (though I do have an O level in law) I'd swop it gladly for the big writings Grin

SirSamVimesCityWatch · 06/07/2022 20:45

How did you make the writing go massive, @Cuck00soup ??

Metabigot · 06/07/2022 20:43

NumberTheory · 06/07/2022 19:13

It seems an odd statement. Of course, the ruling doesn’t affect trans people’s workplace protection, how could it? The case wasn’t about trans people’s workplace protections and trans people were not harassed or discriminated against at Maya’s workplace.

The trans! Won't anyone think of the trans!

PearlClutch · 06/07/2022 20:41

Cuck00soup · 06/07/2022 20:10

I don't even have a O level in law.

But even my non legal brain can get itself around the scenario where if A is found guilty of murdering B, A is not also subsequently found guilty of their manslaughter too.

--Waits to be told I'm wrong

but you have a GCSE in MAKIGN TEXT BIGLY, amirite? Grin

Fluffymule · 06/07/2022 20:40

achillestoes · 06/07/2022 19:27

Stonewall tweeting as if they haven’t been arguing that MF isn’t entitled to her philosophical beliefs (eye roll).

MF didn’t harass any trans colleagues. So the statement is irrelevant at best.

Stonewall tweeting as if they haven't just been through similar legal action due to their actions towards a Lesbian woman who they felt wasn't entitled to express her philosophical beliefs.

Cuck00soup · 06/07/2022 20:10

I don't even have a O level in law.

But even my non legal brain can get itself around the scenario where if A is found guilty of murdering B, A is not also subsequently found guilty of their manslaughter too.

--Waits to be told I'm wrong

Redshoeblueshoe · 06/07/2022 20:05

BenCoopersSupportWren - I'm with you - let's crack open the veno, champagne, or whatever people prefer. I'm going to have a large whisky, and watch the Women's Euro's opening match.
Cheers 🍷🍾🍹

BenCoopersSupportWren · 06/07/2022 19:55

Look, we all know from experience that if you handed MaragaritaPie the stick the right way round, they’d grasp the wrong end of it so for once can we not get derailed by playing pigeon chess and just concentrate on celebrating Maya’s brilliant brave win?

howdoesatoastermaketoast · 06/07/2022 19:50

From the above leaflet...

What to do if your pronouns are requested

"The simplest thing is to decline in a low-key manner. You do not need to explain why. Simply refrain from putting pronouns in your biography or your email signature and don’t announce them at meetings. If invited to, say ‘No thank you’ and if asked why, say something bland like ‘It is not a practice I follow’. Employers should recognise that not everyone has the same beliefs, and that cultural rituals should not be imposed on people with demands that they explain themselves if they decline. For example, a work team might toast a success with champagne. If one colleague declines to drink alcohol it might be because of their religion, because they are pregnant, because they are a recovering alcoholic, because they are on medication or for any number of personal reasons. A simple ‘No thank you’ should be accepted without question – similarly with an invitation to state your pronouns."

howdoesatoastermaketoast · 06/07/2022 19:34

Pluvia · 06/07/2022 13:42

So, in the light of this, would it be possible for someone at Sex Matters to produce a model response that could be used by anyone asked to give their pronouns at work? Citing this judgment, emphasising the right not to believe in GI, the right to express those beliefs and requesting not to be compelled to participate in it?

I was reading this today and think its very useful sex matters guide to pronouns at work it dates back to the woriads ruling.

ResisterRex · 06/07/2022 19:30

achillestoes · 06/07/2022 19:27

Stonewall tweeting as if they haven’t been arguing that MF isn’t entitled to her philosophical beliefs (eye roll).

MF didn’t harass any trans colleagues. So the statement is irrelevant at best.

Stonewall tweeting with replies turned off. Plus ca change.

howdoesatoastermaketoast · 06/07/2022 19:29

Tallisker · 06/07/2022 00:19

Sex Matters are looking for an administrator, I am seriously considering applying. It would give me a chance to take an active part in supporting the fight for our rights

I saw this too, I don't think I'm in a position to apply unfortunately but I really want to

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