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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sajid Javid just resigned

612 replies

achillestoes · 05/07/2022 18:11

That’s all.

OP posts:
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MoltenLasagne · 06/07/2022 12:46

I've slightly lost the thread of what's going on here, but I think you can wholeheartedly want Boris to go, hope he gets shamed into it, but be concerned that the answer to him not leaving is to change the rules.

The no confidence vote was restricted to once a year max to give the country stability, even if it's the stability of a known dodgy quantity. Taking that away gives the party yet more power over the prime minister and means a future PM will know to be more concerned about the party than the electorate.

I just feel very uncomfortable with the notion that we should undermine rules of governing the country for a short term aim.

achillestoes · 06/07/2022 12:41

Javid is making a very dignified speech.

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SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 06/07/2022 12:40

No! I 'seem to think' that neither of them have an idea, no more than any other politician. The whole post was written as a single thought. Dissecting it leads you to miss the message. A bit like not seeing the woods for the trees.

Starmer? Just start with the reason why I sent back my Labour card. An ideology he wholeheartedly agrees with, apparently. That as a woman I am a 'non transwomen' or some such. How a man with his education can come out with such crap I don't know. That is intellectually corrupt. Plus the usual corruption of a very rich man and the tax system, Ministers Codes etc - all reported in papers quite differently from any Tory politician - and I wonder why?

But mainly the lily livered, supposed vote gathering, continued destruction of the Labour Party!

I did say equally but differently corrupt!

Blossomtoes · 06/07/2022 12:33

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 06/07/2022 12:27

OMG! After that post?

See this is the problem isn't it? No nuance. Disagree and fail to condemn 100% and look! I am supposed to be an absolute supporter.

Logic fails all over the place.

You said And at the moment a corrupt sleazeball who actually does stuff is possibly a whisker ahead of an equally, if differently, corrupt sleazeball who hasn't got an idea in his head that wasn't planted by dangerous lobby groups and sloganeers.

You seem to think Starmer’s got ideas, where are Johnson’s? I personally would prefer a decent human being which would be Starmer or Ed Davey. I have no idea why anyone should think Starmer’s “a corrupt sleazebag” - I’d be interested in some evidence.

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 06/07/2022 12:27

Blossomtoes · 06/07/2022 12:13

What are Johnson’s ideas @SamphirethePogoingStickerist? Where’s the plan?

OMG! After that post?

See this is the problem isn't it? No nuance. Disagree and fail to condemn 100% and look! I am supposed to be an absolute supporter.

Logic fails all over the place.

MarshaBradyo · 06/07/2022 12:18

PMQs are a mess so far

more might resign but whether that’ll do anything

MarshaBradyo · 06/07/2022 12:16

OneOfThoseOldFashionedWomen · 06/07/2022 12:04

Yes, typical Tory approach, rules are there to be ignored or changed to suit the current needs, so not really rules.

Do you want them to succeed?

This is a bit nuts either you want rules to stick and he can’t go or you do want him gone - which do you prefer

Blossomtoes · 06/07/2022 12:13

What are Johnson’s ideas @SamphirethePogoingStickerist? Where’s the plan?

OneOfThoseOldFashionedWomen · 06/07/2022 12:04

MarshaBradyo · 06/07/2022 11:47

Politically, the Tory party can have one shot a year at getting a PM out.

there are quite a few focussing on changing the rules so it’s not one shot

Yes, typical Tory approach, rules are there to be ignored or changed to suit the current needs, so not really rules.

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 06/07/2022 12:03

wellhelloitsme · 06/07/2022 11:46

Disturbing to see rules being changed? The irony. You're blind to his failings, that's clear. I can't understand it. If someone I support behaves poorly or without integrity at some point, even if I still support them in general I would be capable of saying yes, they were very wrong to do xyz and it's completely fair that other people therefore cannot support them. Some Boris fanatics seem incapable of recognising this. Very odd.

See, I am not a "Boris fanatic" but I do think he does some things well, pretty much as Sunak's resignation letter said.

And when I say "well" that's a bit of a poisoned chalice. It means "as well as any fucking politician could be expected to do these days". Now it's wholly a chosen educated for career and not a passion, a calling, a need for social justice, for m/any of them.

For me, and others that I know who are looking at the next GE in disbelief, it isn't that any of them are electable. It's about choosing the least bad option.

And at the moment a corrupt sleazeball who actually does stuff is possibly a whisker ahead of an equally, if differently, corrupt sleazeball who hasn't got an idea in his head that wasn't planted by dangerous lobby groups and sloganeers.

It's been building for years, but this is the state of UK politics. We built it. This is where/when we pay for it!

MarshaBradyo · 06/07/2022 11:47

Politically, the Tory party can have one shot a year at getting a PM out.

there are quite a few focussing on changing the rules so it’s not one shot

achillestoes · 06/07/2022 11:46

‘Why is there is no body with any power who can effectively discipline MPs conduct?’

Who would those people be?

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wellhelloitsme · 06/07/2022 11:46

Provenceinthesummer · 06/07/2022 11:35

And YET many millions voted for Boris, knowing exactly who he is…….

It is disturbing to see rules being changed - attack after attack - not unlike the remain plotters one notes…….

Disturbing to see rules being changed? The irony. You're blind to his failings, that's clear. I can't understand it. If someone I support behaves poorly or without integrity at some point, even if I still support them in general I would be capable of saying yes, they were very wrong to do xyz and it's completely fair that other people therefore cannot support them. Some Boris fanatics seem incapable of recognising this. Very odd.

Eeksteek · 06/07/2022 11:43

achillestoes · 06/07/2022 10:15

‘How is that not incompetence, gross misconduct and a sackable offence?’

There’s not really such a thing as ‘sacking’ the PM. Only the Tory party as a whole can do that unless we have an election.

Which is precisely my point. No matter how bad he is, he’s unsackable. And he knows it. He can do what the fuck he likes. Politically, the Tory party can have one shot a year at getting a PM out. But conduct wise, we are relying on their integrity and decency to a) not be a twat and b) resign if they get found out. And yet the people who are the least principled and thus most likely to behave immorally are also the ones least likely to resign, so it’s not at all fit for purpose. It really pisses me off that the people who make the rules are so often exempt from the rules. That’s not healthy. Mostly for smaller things that every day people would suffer life changing consequences for. What would happen if you dozed in meetings? Or fiddled your expenses? Or in fact failed to turn up at work at all? Why is there is no body with any power who can effectively discipline MPs conduct? (And ish, actually. No one should set their own pay!). We know this, because they are still routinely behaving in ways long deemed unacceptable (with actual consequences) in wider society. I know there have been fines. But thousands in fines to people will millions is no deterrent. Quite the opposite actually. They just think it’s a sort of post-offence fee. So why not chance it? It’s not bloody on!

Let’s charitably suppose a PM lost capacity. Maybe they develop dementia or a brain tumour. But the refuse to leave office. They start by surrounding themselves with people who owe them large favours (which they implement by improperly spending public money and using their influence for personal gain for their new sidekicks). The new sidekicks do favours back (by improperly making new enforcing or ignoring existing legislation). Some of these are exposed, and the PM is investigated and found guilty of them. He pays the fines, but remains in office. This happen again, to our fictional PM and his aides. He is found to have appointed people who are not fit to govern. But he refuses to resign. Other ministers become uncomfortable. A vote of no confidence is called, but they have so many people bought by improper means they scrape through. More ministers become uncomfortable. They begin to resign. Calls for the PM to resign increase. His position is ‘precarious’ people say ‘how can he survive this?’ But it’s the wrong question. He doesn’t have to survive it. There is no reason he should resign because others have. He makes more dubious appointments for immoral reasons to fill the gaps. More ministers resign. He fills the gap with more people with few principles than ever for even more spurious reasons. He doesn’t resign - why ever would he? He can’t be sacked. By the time the next VOC comes around he has done so many dodgy favours and given so many bribes funded by the tax payer he scrapes through again. And again. Until eventually a GE is forced at the last possible moment and the PM, and his party are voted out by a distrusted public. If there are any left. If they have not brought in media controls, eroded rights to protest and strike, or just killed off or subjugated entire swathes of the population through poor management of resources. Or some really, really stupid ideas. The PM could decide to invade Russia, abolish the welfare state, sell off the NHS to his new ministers’s new healthcare companies, abolish tax for anyone earning over 50k and try to tax Australia to pay for it while legalising prostitution and drug use avid privatising the police.

Ands there’s nothing anyone could do about. Nothing. Until a GE is due anyway.

THAYS a threat to democracy. That’s a coup. That’s a real danger. There’s no way to get rid of a rogue.

Blossomtoes · 06/07/2022 11:41

Provenceinthesummer · 06/07/2022 11:35

And YET many millions voted for Boris, knowing exactly who he is…….

It is disturbing to see rules being changed - attack after attack - not unlike the remain plotters one notes…….

It was pretty bloody disturbing seeing parliament prorogued. Apparently that doesn’t bother you, despite your passion for democracy.

Provenceinthesummer · 06/07/2022 11:35

And YET many millions voted for Boris, knowing exactly who he is…….

It is disturbing to see rules being changed - attack after attack - not unlike the remain plotters one notes…….

Blossomtoes · 06/07/2022 11:31

Whatever you think of Johnson he had a thumping mandate to lead the country and this really isn't good for democracy

A mandate based on a manifesto that Johnson has used to wipe his arse. What price democracy when he illegally prorogued parliament? Where was democracy when he removed the whip from any MP that disagreed with him? Johnson is the biggest enemy of democracy this country has ever seen.

Provenceinthesummer · 06/07/2022 11:30

Boris is going to win a snap election - he should call one today

Provenceinthesummer · 06/07/2022 11:28

I don’t know anyone at all that voted brexit that now regrets it, I do know lots of people however that say they were surprised but how little difference it made to their lives. People are scared of change, it’s natural.

Provenceinthesummer · 06/07/2022 11:26

I think you will find everyone standing around the cake worked in No 10!!
A gathering of randoms it wasn’t!

Its a stitch up!

Somethingneedstochange · 06/07/2022 11:19

Rubbish he's a rascist bigot. He had it printed on the side of a bus we were sending millions a week to the EU andsomestill believe it. Those who voted mostly regret it. We've got farmers not able to get staff to harvest crops. But yeah immigrants are stealing our jobs ffs. 🙄👀

Somethingneedstochange · 06/07/2022 11:14

Oh bore off in times of crisis the British always see humour in everything. If we don't laugh we'll cry.

ImpossibleDrum · 06/07/2022 11:08

Tell me again how Cummings pays his bills with no job or income stream? Perhaps he sells Avon in the evenings.

His Substack is £10 a month and has 'thousands of paid subscribers'.

dominiccummings.substack.com/subscribe?utm_source=menu&simple=true&next=https%3A%2F%2Fdominiccummings.substack.com%2Fabout

wellhelloitsme · 06/07/2022 10:59

Provenceinthesummer · 06/07/2022 10:51

A law fining anyone for a bloody birthday cake is not worth the paper it’s written on!!

And again, the law wasn't to fine people for birthday cake it was to fine people for gatherings. Whether you agree with that law being in place at the time or not, the fact is that the PM approved it, the public were being fined for breaking it and then he broke it himself.

Hypocritical and idiotic, whatever you think of that specific law itself

wellhelloitsme · 06/07/2022 10:58

Provenceinthesummer · 06/07/2022 10:51

A law fining anyone for a bloody birthday cake is not worth the paper it’s written on!!

And yet he and his team wrote it...

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