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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Bette Midler

240 replies

FireFlyBoogaloo · 04/07/2022 17:31

Just posted on Twitter. The usual suspects are all over the replies, obviously, so give her some support if you can—but there's a surprising amount of balance. Seems to me that the scales have finally started to tip.

It was always going to be sunlight.

---WOMEN OF THE WORLD! We are being stripped of our rights over our bodies, our lives and even of our name! They don’t call us “women” anymore; they call us “birthing people” or “menstruators”, and even “people with vaginas”!
Don’t let them erase you! Every human on earth owes you!---

Bette Midler
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dolorsit · 06/07/2022 22:58

ceaddas · 06/07/2022 22:53

Heh, I remember when someone told Marilyn that as a "cis-het white male" he should stay in his lane.

ceaddas · 06/07/2022 22:53

Just adding this for interest.. twitter.com/MisterMarilyn/status/1544525732101201921

MrsTerryPratchett · 06/07/2022 20:56

Yes, I wish we could get her on here and surround her with wine and good vibes.

Especially as I Try got me through a shitty break up. Thanks Macy.

PearlClutch · 06/07/2022 20:51

Datun · 06/07/2022 19:55

I feel sorry for these women. This is their first exposure to the absolute misogyny and violence that underpins a lot of this movement. It's got to come as something of a shock.

Yes, I wish we could get her on here and surround her with wine and good vibes.

It'll be okay, Macy. We've got your back.

WarriorN · 06/07/2022 20:35

29k more likes in the hour and a half since I took that screen shot.

WarriorN · 06/07/2022 20:33

I am assuming she's speaking to the TRAs of course. I don't think she got a back lash for deleting a tweet?

Datun · 06/07/2022 19:55

WarriorN · 06/07/2022 19:09

Macy still queen

I feel sorry for these women. This is their first exposure to the absolute misogyny and violence that underpins a lot of this movement. It's got to come as something of a shock.

achillestoes · 06/07/2022 19:11

I adore her.

WarriorN · 06/07/2022 19:10

And up to 82.5 k followers. I'm sure it was about 30 K when all this started.

WarriorN · 06/07/2022 19:09

Macy still queen

Bette Midler
Abhannmor · 06/07/2022 11:31

The retraction and forced apologies don't matter a damn in reality. Truth has been spoken. It's out there. Midler's tweet had 90k likes and 25k retweets last time I looked - about 36 hrs ago.

Anyway you can't apologise to these bullies. It's never enough. Like a greedy blackmailer , they keep coming for more.

Malahaha · 06/07/2022 11:19

I get the feeling Macy just wandered into it by her gut instinct without understanding too much of the background. Her mentioning "body parts" r me the signal that she really doesn't get that you don't even have to change your body parts to be trans. Women with willies, men with vaginas. Macy doesn't get how far reaching the ideology is, and she waded in out of her depth. That's why she backtracked so quickly.

turbonerd · 06/07/2022 08:25

Well done Bette and Macy!
i am not cis anything. I am not a non-transwoman either.

I am a woman. And for that I am a terf, a bigot and a transphobe.
I dont care, bless their tiny cotton socks. Might even make my own super confusing flag!

SolasAnla · 06/07/2022 06:12

Datun · 05/07/2022 18:41

They aren't erasing women physically, obviously, but they are severing the connection between women and their female biology.

Which wouldn't be of quite so much concern, if we weren't oppressed on the basis of that biology.

And the latest incarnation of that is banning abortion. Again, it's about female biology.

If you can't align oppression and sexism to the sex at whom it's directed, you can't address it.

Women are oppressed. Sometimes it's through the control of like marriage or making them reliant on men, sometimes it's through denying them bodily autonomy, sometimes it's through selling and buying their bodies.

Men who identify as women want the concept of women to be superficial. Hair, make up, pronouns. So they can claim it.

Therefore women and female biology must be decoupled. Hence women being known by individual body parts, depending on the context, and not a collective term.

it's not always obvious how decoupling women from their biology can be detrimental.

But it's women who are being denied an abortion. People know full well that it's not random. It's not a 'people' thing. You don't see any suggestions for men having compulsory vasectomies, do you? And it only being reversed when society at large seems it appropriate. Or their girlfriends and partners say it's ok. It's unthinkable.

Men aren't being disadvantaged in order to stop pregnancies. Even mildly. They're not even included in the equation.

It's not a people thing. It's a woman thing.

And such is the rage over the overturning of Roe v Wade, that removing the means to describe the very cohort who is affected is really hitting home how this ideology affects women.

Thanks for that.

I have seen many US clips of when asked "what is a woman"; women "speakers" presenting an argument on behalf of abortion rights, tripping over herself to avoid saying abortion is about preventing sexual reproduction, so it is a single sex issue, as with humans only human females get pregnant.

Instead she spouts anyone who identifies as a woman and men need abortions too. Abortion is and always will be asymmetrical.

We fully recognise that it takes a male and female to create a baby but that men loose the choice once their sperm is ejuculated. They no longer have an additional choice but still have a responsibilty for the outcome. If he wants a child, he has no right to decide. If he wants an abortion rather than a child, he has no right to decide and DNA testing proves fatherhood. That is the male "burden" in abortion rights and in child maintance obligations.

In 2015 the Irish Government passed legislation which allowed women to obtain the full legal status of a man/male (except for specific sex crimes).
In 2018 the Irish Government passed legislation which allowed women, not men, to legally obtain an abortion. There was no political will to include the pregnant GRC legal men/males.
By 2019 there was a male child sex offender in the Womens prison (now 3 males). Nobody in government even blinked.
By this year women was not even used from single sex legislation for free period products its people with needs who bleed, the word women is now being removed from the pregnancy legislation.

The argument of decoupling women from their biology will make it harder for women in employment. Look at the argument that TERF are anti-abortion,they want to retain the linking between biology and having babies but gender ideology will free women from the "burden", this will appeal to the generation brough up with the expectation of ready available birth control and that having a baby is a choice. Wait until that generation of young women decide to use parental leave. I have met a number of young men who see giving birth as a lifestyle choice and why should his promotion and career path be held back by anti-discrimination laws.

achillestoes · 06/07/2022 05:47

Apparently all she had to say was, ‘I got it wrong. I’ll do better.’

Educate yourself, Bette. 😂

achillestoes · 06/07/2022 05:43

We can’t have it both ways. We can’t stage a fight back against the removal of women’s rights at the same time as pretending we aren’t a thing. Bette had probably just had enough. That doesn’t mean she hates trans people (she clearly doesn’t). It does mean she isn’t prepared to call women ‘menstruators’ and ‘womb carriers’, because it’s incompatible with feminism.

NZdad · 06/07/2022 04:43

Re: "I love how so many of the comments are 'it's not erasure it's inclusive!' Well why can't women just be called women then ffs"

Yeah, this new talking point has definitely evolved in the last week or two, I think in response to the New York Times starting to show signs of heresy.

My response: Replacing the word "women" with "people" in female-specific contexts is maddening in the same way as replacing "Black Lives Matter" with "All Lives Matter". Women are a class facing specific challenges, they have to be able to name themselves.

Datun · 06/07/2022 02:43

The article she publicly agrees with is unequivocal.

Women didn’t fight this long and this hard only to be told we couldn’t call ourselves women anymore.

She's may still be at the stage where she doesn't realise that fawning capitulation is the only acceptable stance.

Emmelina · 06/07/2022 02:29

I ADORE Bette. Truly.

MummBRaaarrrTheEverLeaking · 06/07/2022 01:57

twitter.com/BetteMidler/status/1544470451476467715?t=kxm6trikSZuhrQLx2MkS4A&s=19

Here we go, the "that's not what I meant" has begun. She does however, link to the NY Times article that lead to many mantrums and hyperbolic angry cries so you can imagine how that's gone down.

A range of responses, mainly telling her she needs to educate herself, others very disappointed because they were expecting a good old self flagellation to make them feel all righteous and she's left them wanting. It's never enough mind!

But she does use the phrase "women - ALL WOMEN". And we know what that usually means 😬 Let's hope not this time.

PearlClutch · 05/07/2022 22:29

Well. The first of what has become a long string of such moments.

PearlClutch · 05/07/2022 22:28

Munro Bergdorf famously told women on their own Woman's March, not to centre their biology as it was exclusionary. They weren't allowed to wear 'pussy hats', as a protest against Trump using that word. 'Because not every woman has one'.

That was my wtf moment.

Datun · 05/07/2022 22:25

Once you see the subtext, that women must be uncoupled from their biology, so men can be women, you can't unsee it. It's in everything they say.

Claiming that we have a unique biology is wrong because it's 'reducing us to our parts'. And then they go and actually reduce us to our parts, in order that we can be known by individual functions like menstruators, not the collective term woman.

Munro Bergdorf famously told women on their own Woman's March, not to centre their biology as it was exclusionary. They weren't allowed to wear 'pussy hats', as a protest against Trump using that word. 'Because not every woman has one'.

But yes, yes they do.

WarriorN · 05/07/2022 21:35

Better context of rant:

Bette Midler
WarriorN · 05/07/2022 21:11

i respect everyone's right to be whoever they wana be.'

I can't see this latest tweet anywhere but she pretty much said that on piers Morgan.

She was respectful. She just asked for respect back. Recognition of being a woman.

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