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Original poster

Single-sex lavatories to be mandatory in all new public buildings

137 replies

ChristinaXYZ · 03/07/2022 14:55

I really like the phrase “forced sharing” - I think we should use it more often as it sums up the lack of consent in shared facilities - unlike the neutral sounding 'gender neutral' .

Anyway, good news - I think this is building something that was initially announced by Robert Jenrick last year but got a bit lost after his demotion:

"New office buildings, schools, hospitals and entertainment venues must have separate male and female lavatories, ministers will declare this week, in a move to rein in the “forced sharing” of gender-neutral facilities.

The Telegraph understands that the Government will formally announce that it is acting to prevent non-residential buildings from being built solely with “universal” lavatories. The move will involve changes to building regulations and planning guidance.

The plans, being spearheaded by Kemi Badenoch, the equalities minister, were quietly approved by ministers last month after Mrs Badenoch was warned that some children were avoiding using lavatories at school because they only had access to gender-neutral facilities.

Mrs Badenoch has insisted that it is both legal and “important” to provide single-sex spaces for men and women."

If we could replace Boris with Kemi I'd be a very happy woman.

read more

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/07/02/single-sex-lavatories-mandatory-new-public-buildings - Telegraph has excelled itself with coverage this last week or so.

OP posts:
donquixotedelamancha · 03/07/2022 17:38

The problem is though, genuine transgender (transsexuals is outdated) are copping for the actions of nutters.

Transsexuals I know call themselves that. Of course they are, that's my point.

If mishy et al get the world they want where Alex Drummond is treated as literally female and there are no single sex spaces then genuine transwomen will suffer as much as women, perhaps even more; but not at the hand of feminists.

achillestoes · 03/07/2022 17:37

‘No, over-turning a 20k+ majority is not just mid-term blues.
The same thing happened with John Major's government. The public will only put up with so much sleeze.’

Maybe you’re right. I think they should get rid of Johnson in favour of Javid myself.

ILoveAllRainbowsx · 03/07/2022 17:34

@achillestoes

No, over-turning a 20k+ majority is not just mid-term blues.
The same thing happened with John Major's government. The public will only put up with so much sleeze.
When Trump first said he was going to run for president, I was convinced that he was a closet Democrat and that he was only running so that the Democratic candidate would win the election.
Similarly, the way Boris is acting, I am not sure that he isn't a closet Labour supporter. He is single-handedly destroying the Conservative party.

BreatheAndFocus · 03/07/2022 17:31

MishyJDI · 03/07/2022 16:29

Means little to trans women as they are protected under the EA2010 and will keep using the female facilities, GRA or not. So they will happily support as well. What it will result in is for more self gender or sexual policing by women who suspect other women of looking not female. Ouch for the butch lesbians and those who don’t fit a 1950s stereotype of women.

Hardly Progressive feminism….

Single sex exemptions are permitted. And I think you’re very confused. Nobody has to ‘look female’ to use a Women’s loo. I also find your comment about butch lesbians offensive. They’re women and nobody I know here in the 21st century finds it hard to tell because we understand that women can wear trousers, have short hair, be a mechanic or computer programmer - and still be a woman.

I’m very pleased that single sex toilets will be provided. People need them for all kinds of reasons, and many people prefer them.

beautyisthefaceisee · 03/07/2022 17:28

donquixotedelamancha · 03/07/2022 17:25

@MishyJDI In another futile attempt to attempt to get you to engage constructively:

Let's forget the red herring of genuine transsexuals who make an effort to pass and talk about the cases which create the big increase in risk to women.

Do you really think 'transwomen' like Alex Drummond (I'm sure you know 'her' but, if not, please Google) should have the right to enter all women's spaces?

If not, which ones should be single sex? Toilets, changing rooms, shelters, prisons, sports?

The problem is though, genuine transgender (transsexuals is outdated) are copping for the actions of nutters.

achillestoes · 03/07/2022 17:27

‘The amounting my lesbian gfs that get challenged is just despicable...’

I’m sorry that happens to her. Maybe it’s a reflection, though, of the strength of feeling against mixed sex bathrooms? People really don’t like it.

Original poster
ChristinaXYZ · 03/07/2022 17:25

"Yes, but I can't see the Tories ever being in government again regardless of what he does"

Seriously @ILoveAllRainbowsx? Labour got another Tony Blair somewhere that they have not admitted to yet? They have nothing to offer and have lunged from antisemiticism under Corbyn to misogyny under Starmer. Labour are unlikely to get a majority. The SNP will want a referendum as the price of coalition. Labour cannot give them a referendum because if they do and Scotland leaves the UK they will never be in power again. So if the Tories lose the next election (and it will be them losing it not Labour actively winning it) Labour will likely be a minority government just bumbling on, one piece of legislation at a time, trying to keep a loose group together without giving them anything. Which will fall at the first stiff hurdle.

Yes, I am really very worried about the damage they might do to women rights in that time but the idea that the Tories will never be in government again is just daft. I really pray Labour do not get in for at least a decade till this gender stuff has hopefully been seen for what it is because of the damage they could do in a short time and gender legislation will be prioritised by them before any social stuff - they are not really the party of the working man, never mind the working woman.

Do you know that before the Labour Party existed the Tories were in power less often than after the formation of the Labour Party? The old Liberal Party did a better job of keeping the Tories out of power than Labour have ever done. This country is just not that left wing, never has been.

OP posts:
donquixotedelamancha · 03/07/2022 17:25

@MishyJDI In another futile attempt to attempt to get you to engage constructively:

Let's forget the red herring of genuine transsexuals who make an effort to pass and talk about the cases which create the big increase in risk to women.

Do you really think 'transwomen' like Alex Drummond (I'm sure you know 'her' but, if not, please Google) should have the right to enter all women's spaces?

If not, which ones should be single sex? Toilets, changing rooms, shelters, prisons, sports?

beautyisthefaceisee · 03/07/2022 17:22

ChristinaXYZ · 03/07/2022 16:32

They do need to be clear exactly what they mean by single sex and what they are going to do if they are just ignored. Schools cannot teach political opinions as fact or contested ideology as fact but they do. The government is routinely ignored. It needs to state regulations and then actually enforce them.

And it needs to be on all public buildings not just new builds. We need changes already made to be reversed. So what if it costs the organisations money perhaps they will take more care in future not to discriminate against women.

We aren't allowed to give our political opinions, but the new LGBTQI+ training as my school has achieved its award means we are instructed on what terms to use.

achillestoes · 03/07/2022 17:16

@ILoveAllRainbowsx

The Tories are being punished mid-term like most governments during a recession. The scandals will probably see Johnson step down in the end, and then there are quite a few ministers who could give Starmer a run for his money. Mind, an underwatered spider plant could probably do that.

TidyDancer · 03/07/2022 17:13

This could be good news but obviously as others have pointed out already, it's only good if it actually results in division by sex rather than 'gender identity belief'.

I went to a Wagamama recently in London (won't be going there again obviously after their ridiculous partnership with mermaids but anyway) and there were maybe 8 toilets all together. Two designated as female and the rest as unisex. Would maybe work. In this instance though, there was a TiM working there who chose to use the female toilet. 🙄

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 03/07/2022 17:12

MishyJDI · 03/07/2022 16:51

Oh mate, do you really think that? I can tell a butch woman from a male, we all can 😂 and no, the EA2010 doesn't mean males can use female facilities automatically.

First I’m not your mate as I don’t do exclusion. Two, you have no idea on who is treats and who is not. The amounting my lesbian gfs that get challenged is just despicable. But hey….

  • 1 You might wish to try writing that again.
  • 2 Are there any details missing from your anecdote? Presumably you have no idea of the original sex class of your "lesbian gfs?" If that is so, you might be in no position to ascertain if washroom users have what they perceive to be a legitimate challenge.
  • 3 If you do know the sex class of your "lesbian gfs" and know them to be women, I wonder where you are frequenting for people to have such a hyper-gendered view of the fascinating range of what women look like. Is this the UK?
ILoveAllRainbowsx · 03/07/2022 17:07

achillestoes · 03/07/2022 16:00

@ILoveAllRainbowsx

BJ needs to get his shit together (give up the booze and the one night stands, settle down, in a quiet little town...) or step aside for someone who can administrate better.

@achillestoes

Yes, but I can't see the Tories ever being in government again regardless of what he does.

Assuming that they don't win the next GE, then any other party would just reverse this wouldn't they?

stickygotstuck · 03/07/2022 16:59

Good.

At age 11, DD rejected the better and closest school on the basis that the toilets were unisex. She said she'd never use those.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 03/07/2022 16:54

oh look, it's story time

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 03/07/2022 16:52

our mixed sex swimming pool changing cubicles have had bars added later on top to prevent people (men, let's be honest) perving at others

While mixed sex works well when we go as a family, I'd feel much more comfortable if a single sex option was available for when I go alone

MishyJDI · 03/07/2022 16:52

Who is trans and who is not. You think you do….

MishyJDI · 03/07/2022 16:51

Oh mate, do you really think that? I can tell a butch woman from a male, we all can 😂 and no, the EA2010 doesn't mean males can use female facilities automatically.

First I’m not your mate as I don’t do exclusion. Two, you have no idea on who is treats and who is not. The amounting my lesbian gfs that get challenged is just despicable. But hey….

MrsJamin · 03/07/2022 16:48

Does this extend to swimming pool changing rooms? There are no separate spaces at mine, and showering after my swim this morning, I really really hated it when a man came in. It just felt totally wrong.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 03/07/2022 16:43

I'm quite happy with there also being mixed sex toilets that men who identify as women can use. can't see an issue with that.

among school pupils there won't be any children with a GRC so no confusion can arise there of course.

and if there's ever a time when girls need privacy from males it's when they're wrestling with puberty.

334bu · 03/07/2022 16:37

According to the Equality Act males who identify as women can be excluded from single sex services for women , as they are not female.
However, Mishy ,perhaps you dont believe that women are entitled to the privacy and safety of single sex spaces?

achillestoes · 03/07/2022 16:35

‘What it will result in is for more self gender or sexual policing by women who suspect other women of looking not female. Ouch for the butch lesbians and those who don’t fit a 1950s stereotype of women.’

I really don’t get this logic. Surely if it were the case that humans struggle to tell male from female people (however they present) we would spend a great deal of time trying to work out what sex someone is, and quite a lot of the time we would have to conclude that we couldn’t decide, because the person is somewhere ‘in the middle’.

But we don’t do that. We’re nearly always certain about someone’s sex.

DOBARDAN · 03/07/2022 16:35

Please let this be so
And please let 'single sex' mean single sex in the true sense

SlagathaChristie · 03/07/2022 16:32

MishyJDI · 03/07/2022 16:29

Means little to trans women as they are protected under the EA2010 and will keep using the female facilities, GRA or not. So they will happily support as well. What it will result in is for more self gender or sexual policing by women who suspect other women of looking not female. Ouch for the butch lesbians and those who don’t fit a 1950s stereotype of women.

Hardly Progressive feminism….

Oh mate, do you really think that? I can tell a butch woman from a male, we all can 😂 and no, the EA2010 doesn't mean males can use female facilities automatically.

Original poster
ChristinaXYZ · 03/07/2022 16:32

They do need to be clear exactly what they mean by single sex and what they are going to do if they are just ignored. Schools cannot teach political opinions as fact or contested ideology as fact but they do. The government is routinely ignored. It needs to state regulations and then actually enforce them.

And it needs to be on all public buildings not just new builds. We need changes already made to be reversed. So what if it costs the organisations money perhaps they will take more care in future not to discriminate against women.

OP posts: