Single-sex lavatories to be mandatory in all new public buildings

Maybe you should have coherent arguments.

Are the issues that women have to use men's facilities, that gender neutral toilets are inadequate in construction, or that you are fixated on trans people using women-only facilities?

So this Crusade-remembering, tragically immortal version of Young Ones Rik thinks that toilets on trains are mind broadening.

…

What do we have to do round here to get a better class of opponent?

As you know, train and plane toilets are fully enclosed and the doors are in view of everyone nearby. From that point of view, women are in less danger than in other unisex toilets.

But as others have noted, men still vandalise train toilets, masturbate on the seats and basin and urinate on the floor, etc. So I don’t drink and I try to use the station loos only. Harder to hold out on a long flight, but there’s probably less risk of men masturbating etc as they would so easily be identified.

That last paragraph is right on the money. Very well expressed, @sanluca!

Just to add, we know transmen are not really regarded as men because Parliament specifically legislated to stop them from inheriting titles passing down the male line; they can't join the Masons or many other useful networking organisations with male-only membership; they mostly hit the headlines for becoming pregnant and giving birth; they are (I believe) rarely put in male prisons for their own safety (of course, there are probably vanishingly low numbers of transmen in prison, given how tiny the numbers of female prisoners are compared to male prisoners); they are welcome to compete in male sport but for obvious reasons mostly choose to stay in female sport and not take testosterone. Meanwhile, they are berated by transwomen for having male privilege if they try to speak up on reproductive rights or similar.

Some optimists might have said that about the Tories in 1997, but here we are. The descent into sleaze and scandal is eerily reminiscent of the dying days of the Tories' 18-year stint in government that started with Thatcher and fizzled out under Major. A new dawn, we thought! Nope. New Labour did many good things but were very far from perfect, and after the economic crash back the Tories came.

Totally. Different. Trains and planes have one cubicle 😸 sometimes they have two opposite each other. The ambient noise also makes it very difficult to hear what's going on inside.

Not the same as a bloke using a flimsy partitioned stall right next to a woman or girl using a flimsily partitioned stall in a quiet building.

It took time, in the nineteenth century, for women to gain public toilets — before that, they could only go out for as long as their bladder allowed. But once achieved, that right was never questioned.

OT, there's a good talk by town planner Dr Clara Greed about the provision of public toilets and the phenomenon known as "bladder leash," or being constrained in where you go by the availability of adequate facilities.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3427591-WPUK-Bath-fascinating-important-speech-by-Clara-Greed-Professor-of-Inclusive-Urban-Planning-specialist-in-toilet-provision-with-particular-emphasis-upon-womens-needs

More here by putting this into a search engine: site:mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights bladder leash

This is a very good point, Tasteful. It took time, in the nineteenth century, for women to gain public toilets — before that, they could only go out for as long as their bladder allowed. But once achieved, that right was never questioned.

Until very recently, when it has been suddenly challenged and is now being withdrawn.

Most people oppose this, if asked. But most have not been asked and don’t realise single-sex rights are being abolished without any change in the law.

This new ruling will be a big help, as long as it is followed. Big thank-you to Kemi Badenoch and Robert Jenrick.

(And how I long for the day when I can praise Labour politicians again.)

Dinoteeth, not all swimming pools have the space for mixed sex changing villages. Some have a combination but then the single occupancy stalls aren't open, for example during swimming lessons.

Things aren't always feasible or possible and is it really to much to demand as a society male people respect female people and stay out of single sex facilities meant for the opposite sex?

One of the things I find most despicable about gender ideology and trans demands is the message it gives that women don't deserve respect at all. And if women protest they are the 'uncool' pearl clutchers and dinosaurs, to be ignored and laughed at. Gender ideology enforces the idea women are lower humans and any male who says they are women need to be applauded for being so brave in stepping down the ladder. Patriarchy on steroids

They tend to have one or two enclosed separate toilets so it wouldn't make much difference

@RoyalCorgi

Yes, that’s right. Also if you’re a man and you need to have a wee, you don’t want to be getting your genitals out in front of female people. Including young girls. It’s indecent, and the only people who can’t see that aren’t people I want to share bathrooms with.

It’s just so disingenuous.

Yup. It's as if they don't understand the difference between a single-occupant, lockable cubicle and having to walk past a row of men standing at the urinal to get to a cubicle. It's about not having to share private space with men.

Those aren’t gender neutral facilities are they?

Sometimes it can be very unpleasant- I've had a bloke smirk at me when he left the loo. Got in there and he had wanked all over the place.

My town had two single use public toilets next to each other - one male, one female. Council (not unreasonably) decided to make them unisex as there were always queues for the womens.

I used it once - the sanitary bin had been kicked over and bloody sanitary products were everywhere.

Now there's no queues as women don't use it unless they are really desperate.

Keep swimming pools out the question. Gender neutral changing villages make life much easier for parents with opposite sexed children.

There must be 100s of threads on here about 8 year olds being expected to get changed in changing rooms that their parent can't access. Also the risk to boys from predatory adult men.

Quite. Some people have no idea, do they.

But airplane toilet doors are in full view of passengers and staff. So risk of anything happening is small. Toilets are single occupancy.

And can I say it is really annoying how you belittle womens objections to forced sharing of toilet facilities.

It’s just so disingenuous. A train has CCTV (and still there are sexual assaults on trains all the time) and usually staff.

This is about what happens when a lone woman needs the toilet in a car park on some dusty highway to nowhere, and she walks in to the bathroom and there are three blokes having a piss and a chat. Is she unreasonable to think that arrangement has not been made with her safety in mind?

Use toilets before taking train, don't drink. Thos train toilets are vile anyway.

@antifascist

Trains don’t just have urinals sitting there in view of the carriage, do they?

I guess planes are also out of the question… now I see why they say “travel broadens the mind”

Do the more aggressive toilet obsessed mumsnet contributors ever travel by train , I wonder?

how do you cope?

Those young women want to impress men, and don’t mind throwing other women to the wolves.

I’m amazed how similar this is to the girls I was at school with, many decades ago, who used to say all their friends were boys — so much more interesting than girls etc. Except back then, they were talking in the safety of the girls’ toilets!

@TheBiologyStupid

Yes! Someone got me. 😂

Yep, your horrible experience says it all. You weren't assualted but these loos allowed male strangers to get some kind of kick out of you being in there, in a vulnerable state behind a closed door, you were ultimately in the weaker state against them. That just wouldn't happen in a female loom

Why women are supporting this and happy for this to potentially happen to them, young girls and fellow women is utterly beyond me.