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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Backlash against female only rape crisis groups

67 replies

IamSarah · 03/07/2022 10:30

This article in The Critic discusses the backlash to my legal challenge. Very grateful to Victoria Smith for highlighting the misogyny female rape survivors face from some 'feminists'

thecritic.co.uk/spaces-of-our-own/

OP posts:
mrshoho · 11/07/2022 07:46

Well done Sarah. Your fight for this basic right is so important. How could anyone go out of their way to deprive rape victims of this simple request? To access a women/female only support group where they can feel safe? And we are supposed to believe that trans rights are not at odds with women's rights? Well they clearly are.

334bu · 11/07/2022 07:22

Well said Sarah.

IamSarah · 10/07/2022 22:59

The fact that there are facilities provided for men and for transwomen, but they still insist on using those intended for women, makes it very clear that this is about breaching women's boundaries. It's about invading women's spaces. Just as rape is about invading women's bodies.

Even if it's a small percentage of males who do this, it's still too many.

I have no idea how service providers can separate trans women in need of help from predatory males who want to get off on breaching female boundaries.

Well I do have an idea actually, offer the option of a single sex space for women who need it.

OP posts:
ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus · 10/07/2022 21:53

The fact that there are facilities provided for men and for transwomen, but they still insist on using those intended for women, makes it very clear that this is about breaching women's boundaries. It's about invading women's spaces. Just as rape is about invading women's bodies.

MrGHardy · 10/07/2022 21:41

This is absolutely infuriating. The same people make memes about religious people and how they don't want abortions but shouldn't enforce their restrictions on others, and yet then turn around and do the same to others. They don't want female only spaces, but then also vehemently want to prevent others from having them.

stealtheatingtunnocks · 10/07/2022 10:08

Trowel at the ready

334bu · 10/07/2022 09:44

Gardening needed for Sarah.

Crocky · 05/07/2022 11:04

Thank you Sarah.

@Artichokeleaves brilliantly put.

Fimofriend · 05/07/2022 10:44

Thank you for your work, Sarah.

I think the mistake they are making is to assume that only women who have been raped care about this issue. But we all know it could just as easily have been us. I do not know a single woman above the age of 25 who has not been sexually harassed.

TheBiologyStupid · 04/07/2022 23:38

Artichokeleaves · 03/07/2022 13:28

And if 're framing trauma' is the answer and should be expected of those in distress, my answer would be to the TQ+ lobby: you first.

Go and use sex based spaces; reframe your trauma around transition and not being able to. Reframe your trauma around misgendering. Reframe your trauma around females saying no and wanting spaces of their own that recognise them as half the bloody human race. You first.

When you prove it's a lovely, happy wonderland that leads to being able to cope easily with what is so distressing - and it's a moral imperative to overcome it - then perhaps females will consider following the example.

Until then? It sounds like coercive bullshit that sets out demands for sacrifice and selfless suffering from females that males have absolutely no intention of ever making themselves. They will simply demand that females do all the servicing of their needs so they don't have to. There's words for that. Very, very old ones.

As so often before, Artichoke, that was brilliantly put - thanks!

TotalRhubarb · 04/07/2022 23:38

Great article. I'm rooting for you Sarah.

TotalRhubarb · 04/07/2022 23:29

Artichokeleaves · 03/07/2022 13:28

And if 're framing trauma' is the answer and should be expected of those in distress, my answer would be to the TQ+ lobby: you first.

Go and use sex based spaces; reframe your trauma around transition and not being able to. Reframe your trauma around misgendering. Reframe your trauma around females saying no and wanting spaces of their own that recognise them as half the bloody human race. You first.

When you prove it's a lovely, happy wonderland that leads to being able to cope easily with what is so distressing - and it's a moral imperative to overcome it - then perhaps females will consider following the example.

Until then? It sounds like coercive bullshit that sets out demands for sacrifice and selfless suffering from females that males have absolutely no intention of ever making themselves. They will simply demand that females do all the servicing of their needs so they don't have to. There's words for that. Very, very old ones.

Oh this. So, so much this.

PearlClutch · 04/07/2022 19:37

Excellent article.

It's horrible that you are getting abuse. If it helps, it only reveals the horrible, limiting sickness at the heart of so much of the current orthodoxies. Women are allowed to be sex objects; smiling, always supportive mothers; cheerleaders.

We are not to talk out of turn. We are not to raise inconvenient truths. We are not to talk about our own wants, needs, fears, feelings, only validate those of others.

Otherwise, we get the mob.

I'm sorry. Here with you. xxx

GrowlingManchego · 04/07/2022 19:23

Thank you Sarah, what a brilliant piece. You have my wholehearted support.

RaininginDarling · 04/07/2022 18:59

IamSarah · 03/07/2022 13:38

Thank you so much for the support and wise words. It really, really helps.

Yes there have been some awful responses to my case but there has also been so much support and kindness. Women are amazing.

I'm so sorry to read about your case and what you are dealing with. These people have totally lost their minds and humanity. I'm so sorry.

The abuse I experienced as a child lasted until I hit puberty. In my early fifties now and I still avoid sitting next to (or being alone with) men I don't know well if I can. It's not even a conscious thought just something I do. You wouldn't know it on sight, I'm very outgoing but trauma, sexual trauma, echoes on. X

RiojaRose · 04/07/2022 14:26

Really good article. Very clear and very powerful.

turbonerd · 04/07/2022 14:20

Very good article

Justme56 · 04/07/2022 14:10

I read the thread a few days ago started by another Australian ‘queer’ journalist and it was appalling. It was apparent from the start that many of the commentators had been very selective in what they had picked up from Sarah’s story and had no idea about the fact that whilst the crisis centre had offered various groups for males and trans victims there was no female equivalent (I think that is correct). There was the usual how did you know it was a man and well I’m trans masc and I often get mistaken for male, it was probably a butch lesbian etc etc. It was full of excuse upon excuse and sadly it was the young women who were the most vile. Fortunately though there were many women and men (initially trying to explain the actual situation - unfortunately to closed ears) who basically called them out on how utterly disgusting they were. Sorry Sarah that you are going through this but Twitter is not a reflection of real life (you can guarantee that on a Saturday afternoon everything trending is about football) and you have a lot of support. The fact that the EHRC give the need for single sex options at a rape crisis centre as a prime example only goes to show that IRL these are very much needed. Good luck.

lovelyweathertoday · 04/07/2022 13:41

Wow, I got a message deleted supporting Sarah wanting single sex spaces.

I did not say anything abusive or name a specific person.

I simply stated who shouldn't be in women only spaces.

Sarah, you have full support of women who understand that women need single-sex spaces to heal.

FannyCann · 04/07/2022 13:35

Great article. Thank you for posting Sarah and thank you for taking up the fight. I do so hope you win.

Redshoeblueshoe · 04/07/2022 13:23

Norden there is a petition's board somewhere on Mumsnet

AngeloMysterioso · 04/07/2022 13:05

More power to your elbow, Sarah. In absolute awe of your courage and strength.

Norden · 04/07/2022 12:34

An Australian woman working for an Australian organisation in charge of assaulted women has criticised Sarah, calling her all sorts of names. i.e. sh1theel.

"Leena van Deventer must be removed from her position as board member for the Victorian Women's Trust.
On June 28, the Daily Mail reported that a UK woman is suing the UK Survivors' Network for indirect discrimination after they allowed a trans identified male to attend a support group for female victims of male sexual violence. The woman, clearly suffering from post traumatic stress disorder, had a panic attack triggered by the man's presence in what she thought was a safe space.
In response to this news, Leena van Deventer tweeted that this woman - a survivor of child sexual abuse and rape - "should be spat on at every opportunity". She went on to wish death upon the woman and slurred her as a "shitheel".
The Victorian Women's Trust must immediately remove Leena van Deventer from their board. She has no business representing women or women's issues given this appalling and abhorrent abuse of a woman. Her lack of understanding regarding trauma informed care for victims of male sexual violence is shocking and borders on victim blaming.
We call upon the Victorian Women's Trust to fire Leena van Deventer and to review their misguided policies that position the interests of trans identified males above those of actual women. There are countless well funded LGBTQIA+ organisations that can accommodate the needs of trans identified men. Victorian Women's Trust must return to their original mission of advocating for girls and women."

There is a petition which has been created to remove this woman from her post. I know we cannot post petitions here, but please google Leena van Deventer Victorian Women's Trust and please sign and share if you would like to.

lovelyweathertoday · 03/07/2022 22:36

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

boomoohoo · 03/07/2022 22:24

Great article, thank you Sarah. Please know that me and my nearest stand with you. I think you're incredible. Love and solidarity to you 💪