My children being asked their pronouns by youth group leader

Exactly. But that doesn't mean people who are trans are actually brainwashed gay people.

Asking someone’s “pronouns” is like asking their sexual orientation or bank balance. There ARE places it might be ok to ask but I’m pretty sure it’s NOT in a group intro like this.

And some kids are gay - will grow up to be gay and aren’t ‘in the wrong body’ or ‘GI Joe/Barbie’.

Nobody is 'transing' anyone.

Some people are just...trans?

StanleyBostitch
I was born in England but live in another country. I'm honestly gobsmacked at the intolerance on this website for those who do not fit into the standard gender mould. Where I live we're vastly more accepting of gender fluidity, and I wouldn't say we're an enormously progressive society.

StanleyBostitch, everyone is gender fluid.
The U.K. is a country of eccentrics and free thinkers compared to say the US.

The whole point is that transing children/young people, and all the harm that will entail, on the basis that because they do not conform to gender stereotypes they are in the wrong body, is the epitome of intolerance.

in addition, if they have body dysphoria and the reasons for it are not explored, but rather they are transed, that is child abuse by neglect let alone by the ‘medical care’ that may follow.

If they might grow up to be gay, and that is why in a very few cases they are gender non conforming, but their society or religion is repulsed by that and transes them, that is hardly tolerance either.

What is the deal with the ice cream?

They trying to bribe the kids?

You see the pushback is because it is lunacy.

I never hear what pronouns people use about me - they are only ever used in my absence. So why I would feel the need to robustly pre-police what happens in my absence escapes me. It's no disservice to me if people referring to me in my absence do so in a manner that means they all know who they are referring to!

ow vocal members would feel if their children decided that they had been misgendered at birth and asked to use alternative pronouns That's actually quite easy. Use whatever name you chose darling, gender stereotyping is the very devil. But do remember that human beings cannot actually change sex so, whilst you may prefer a feminine name and clothing, you are still a boy, a boy doing his own thing - which is good [or girl, obviously]

TO me using preferred pronouns is about lying, disregarding science and setting up a young trans person for a terrifying social experience - where adults lie to them, deny material reality and confuse them beyond all common sense - see various desisters in the news recently.

I have no idea why ANY / EVERY parent doesn't push back and demand a more honest discussion with young people exploring their sexuality and identity. I have no idea why bimbling along with trans ideology is not seen for what it is - seriously damaging to so many!

It is a struggle for young children to understand the world. They like certainty. Trying to make them see ambiguity about their sex where is none is abusive.

Keep.so called adults like the youth workers out of their lives.

Does the religion school know about this?
If so, why are they encouraging it? If not, perhaps they would stop using this youth group.

Definitely keep your children away.

6 year old apparently just said “I am a boy”

Colleague at work has complained his 5 year old has been told he's not allowed to say he's a boy.

What do people actually mean when they say ‘validate’ - validate as what? Human? Special? Ooooo edgy?

To me, using preferred pronouns is about including others and making their decisions around identity feel validated

whydo we have to validate people?

We don't exist to validate the lives of others. I'd not be hanging around with such needy people tbh.

For starters I'd write a formal complaint/request to the religious school, copying in any governors or similar (however it works), asking for their reasons in writing for putting these questions to attendees.

To me, using preferred pronouns is about including others and making their decisions around identity feel validated,

However to others, being asked to use a pronoun that doesn't match the recipients actual biological sex is effectively asking them to tell lie. Should we be encouraging kids to say things that they know are not true in order to make others feel validated?

My brother had long hair in the 70/80s, he was also short and very slim. The times he got called a girl… it’s amazing he’s not dead 🙄

lol at the idea that FWR is trying to force people into gender stereotypes

we hate gender stereotypes that’s the bloody point! A boy wearing a dress with long hair is still a boy - he’s a boy breaking the gender stereotypes and good on him. He’s not a bloody girl

most of the women here grew up in the 70s & 80s when “gender bending” was completely normal. We knew then as we know now that women in trousers with short hair are not men, they’re women who don’t fit gender stereotypes

the idea that misgendering is this terrible awful appalling crime is so narcissistic it’s laughable. I used to have very very short hair & was on occasion misgendered. Somehow I managed to struggle through without screaming & retiring to my fainting couch

waffle, waffle, waffle, me, me , look at meeeeeeee! self entitled narcissistic twaddle.

I was born in England but live in another country. I'm honestly gobsmacked at the intolerance on this website for those who do not fit into the standard gender mould.

On the contrary, we are all for breaking the gender mould. In fact it is gender ideologists, who say that if girls wear male attire and do " male" activities, that means they are really men. Here we say ,wear what you like, live as you please bur don't infringe others' rights.

Misgendered? Most of my family’s first language doesn’t have pronouns.

we recently had a set of photos doing the rounds ‘he is really looking forward to going camping with his friends! He is so happy’. It’s a girl, she knows she’s a girl, we all know she’s a girl, I’m frequently referred to as ‘he’, but hey, no one ever died as a result.

some people need to get their heads out of their own behinds. Feel ‘unsafe’ because someone referred to you (or thinks of you) as your born sex pronoun? You need to really think about your life, and think how lucky you are if that’s your detention of ‘unsafe’

People have felt misgendered for hundreds of years, now they are finally being heard.

Genuine question: what do you mean by misgendered? The idea that gender stereotypes are regressive and many people don't fit the standard mold of what men and women 'should' be like is hardly news to feminists. It's the foundational premise of GC/radical feminism.

What does that have to do with insisting people use made up pronouns or announce their pronouns to others?

I was born in England but live in another country. I'm honestly gobsmacked at the intolerance on this website for those who do not fit into the standard gender mould.

I wonder whether you don't understand the discussion because you aren't from the UK? Nobody (well there are probably some, we get non-feminists too) on MN FWR is opposed to gender non-conformity. The issue is that forced announcement of pronouns is being pushed by a number of organisations campaigning to remove women's rights, so people assume that happening in a school setting is part of that agenda.

I appreciate why this might seem like scaremongering if you haven't seen the problem; I'm a teacher and I'm speaking from first hand experience. I hate gender sterotypes and I'm very happy to see them being broken down- that's not what this is about.

I didn't assume anything about your aex. I called you Stanley. As that is your chosen user name.

And nobody is misgendered at birth. People are sexed at conception.

Oh we know all about gender fluidity on this board. Indeed a lot of us have experienced it ourselves, which is precisely why we don't believe it should take precedence over sex.

Well you are completely misunderstanding the issue.

We believe in the existence of sex. People of either sex can be as gender non conformist as they want to be. We don't want them to have to sterilise themselves to fit into any gender mould. We dont want girls to have their breasts removed just becaus they don't like dolls. And we don't want boys to have their penises removed or shrunk because they do.

I was born in England but live in another country. I'm honestly gobsmacked at the intolerance on this website for those who do not fit into the standard gender mould. Where I live we're vastly more accepting of gender fluidity, and I wouldn't say we're an enormously progressive society.