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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Baroness Nicholson on Regent Street flags

385 replies

ChristinaXYZ · 01/07/2022 09:23

Her letter here:

twitter.com/Baroness_Nichol/status/1542733465157877760/photo/1

OP posts:
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7
Inamuddle36 · 02/07/2022 13:42

could Someone please explain what all the colours of the original pride flag represent and what all the colours now represent? I was in John Lewis a few days ago and looked at the enormous flag and couldn’t figure out who each stripe is meant to be for?

Hearach15 · 02/07/2022 13:40

BootsAndRoots · 02/07/2022 13:22

No, rainbow capitalism is a much bigger issue (because it deals with many companies and many millions of pounds) than the historical voting patterns of one person. But again you just want to derail the thread and not talk about the actual flags flying.

Actual homophobia is a much bigger issue than rainbow capitalism.

KittenKong · 02/07/2022 13:34

Contribution LGBT people (you forgot the rest of them)? How condescending.

Hearach15 · 02/07/2022 13:34

KittenKong · 02/07/2022 13:28

Feh. Let them have their parade and pain their faces with rainbows. I assume they will the there next time my sister gets a kicking?

LGBT people do indeed show solidarity to other LGBT people when they are subjected to violence.

This is just one example:

www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/sligo-murders-vigils-held-aidan-26711323

KittenKong · 02/07/2022 13:33

why - they are flying a flag with an icon those with DSD have begged not to have? Be kind my bahookie.

Hearach15 · 02/07/2022 13:32

BootsAndRoots · 02/07/2022 13:22

No, rainbow capitalism is a much bigger issue (because it deals with many companies and many millions of pounds) than the historical voting patterns of one person. But again you just want to derail the thread and not talk about the actual flags flying.

The flag flying is great! I think London looked wonderful all dressed up to celebrate pride and the marvellous contribution LGBT people make to British society!

KittenKong · 02/07/2022 13:28

Feh. Let them have their parade and pain their faces with rainbows. I assume they will the there next time my sister gets a kicking?

BootsAndRoots · 02/07/2022 13:27

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 02/07/2022 13:21

The Jubilee flags that famous transwoman India Willoughby found oppressive and fascistic?

Exactly this, it is these hypocrites who remain silent or express such love for these Progress++ Pride flag flying.

For all the straight people attending, are they actually practising cultural appropriation? Many of them support gay rights until someone in their family or circle of friends is gay, and then all of the discrete homophobia comes out. "I love gay people, but I wouldn't want any in my family", "I love gay people, but I wouldn't date a bisexual".

I've seen a lot of ally-ship that actually masks homophobia. Not surprising that we see a lot of "trans the gay away".

KittenKong · 02/07/2022 13:23

I wish all the owe ally people would fight for disability rights. I really do. My sister is terminally ill and almost blind - I don’t see and allies crying over her.

BootsAndRoots · 02/07/2022 13:22

Hearach15 · 02/07/2022 12:56

We must be going to different pride parades then because the last one I was at was about 50/50 men/women.

Rainbow capitalism is an issue but it's not nearly as big an issue as the bigotry displayed by the noble Baroness.

No, rainbow capitalism is a much bigger issue (because it deals with many companies and many millions of pounds) than the historical voting patterns of one person. But again you just want to derail the thread and not talk about the actual flags flying.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 02/07/2022 13:21

Hearach15 · 02/07/2022 12:27

Flags that show people support LGBT rights.

It's like how people put out flags to show they support the Queen a few weeks ago :)

(And yes, both Pride and Jubilee events were also parties - so what?)

The Jubilee flags that famous transwoman India Willoughby found oppressive and fascistic?

Baroness Nicholson on Regent Street flags
Hearach15 · 02/07/2022 13:16

Clymene · 02/07/2022 13:11

In fact, I think all straight parents should take their kids to a pride parades. It is a wonderful way to teach them about acceptance.

Adult babies and men in gimp masks and dressed as furries? Hard from me.

And please stop lecturing those of us who were there at Pride marches in the 80s and 90s @Hearach15. You're embarrassing yourself.

Lots of parents take their kids to pride and they have a great time. Cheer up!

Clymene · 02/07/2022 13:11

In fact, I think all straight parents should take their kids to a pride parades. It is a wonderful way to teach them about acceptance.

Adult babies and men in gimp masks and dressed as furries? Hard from me.

And please stop lecturing those of us who were there at Pride marches in the 80s and 90s @Hearach15. You're embarrassing yourself.

KittenKong · 02/07/2022 13:07

I wonder how many of those were gay. It’s just a laugh and a day out for a lot these days.

Hearach15 · 02/07/2022 12:56

KittenKong · 02/07/2022 12:54

These were a group of young women sitting in a gay bar (used to be a lesbian bar). They chose to be there (loads of bars around there). It says it all - gal allie but not for women.

it’s all big business backed, and people (ok - mostly men) just dressing up, wiggling their backsides and taking cracks at women. Pride my arse.

We must be going to different pride parades then because the last one I was at was about 50/50 men/women.

Rainbow capitalism is an issue but it's not nearly as big an issue as the bigotry displayed by the noble Baroness.

KittenKong · 02/07/2022 12:54

These were a group of young women sitting in a gay bar (used to be a lesbian bar). They chose to be there (loads of bars around there). It says it all - gal allie but not for women.

it’s all big business backed, and people (ok - mostly men) just dressing up, wiggling their backsides and taking cracks at women. Pride my arse.

Hearach15 · 02/07/2022 12:50

KittenKong · 02/07/2022 12:46

The irony of my sister having a gaggle of lovely young (straight) women sitting in a gay bar hissing ‘dyke’ at her as she walked through the door is not exactly lost here…

There is clearly a difference between straight allies attending pride parades and straight people turning up to abuse LGBT people.

Hearach15 · 02/07/2022 12:49

KittenKong · 02/07/2022 12:45

So you were flying them in the 70s and 80s? Back when my sister and I were getting bullied like hell because she is a lesbian? When to fly a pride flag actually means something?

Now it’s bloody Mardi Gras for straights, and the bullying is going the same flipping way.

I wasn't alive in the 80s, so that would be a no.

Personally, I like that Pride is an event where you can bring your straight friends these days.

In fact, I think all straight parents should take their kids to a pride parades. It is a wonderful way to teach them about acceptance.

antifascist · 02/07/2022 12:47

There appears a concerted effort to defend Nicholson and to condemn critics for having the gall to point out what she has said repeatedly about gay rights and the positions she has adopted in parliament.

What with other threads praising Jacob Rees-Mogg and Jordan Peterson I would suggest that if you consider these three individuals as people whose politics you admire that you are not particular concerned about the rights of women or gay people.

KittenKong · 02/07/2022 12:46

The irony of my sister having a gaggle of lovely young (straight) women sitting in a gay bar hissing ‘dyke’ at her as she walked through the door is not exactly lost here…

KittenKong · 02/07/2022 12:45

Hearach15 · 02/07/2022 12:27

Flags that show people support LGBT rights.

It's like how people put out flags to show they support the Queen a few weeks ago :)

(And yes, both Pride and Jubilee events were also parties - so what?)

So you were flying them in the 70s and 80s? Back when my sister and I were getting bullied like hell because she is a lesbian? When to fly a pride flag actually means something?

Now it’s bloody Mardi Gras for straights, and the bullying is going the same flipping way.

Clymene · 02/07/2022 12:40

As has been repeated several times on the thread @Hearach15 Stonewall didn't lobby for gay marriage

www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/09/27/stonewall-co-founder-michael-cashman-what-part-of-equality-cant-stonewall-understand/

Hearach15 · 02/07/2022 12:29

Icantreachthepretzels · 02/07/2022 11:49

Hearach - I don't think you understand that tweet (or perhaps you do but are being disingenuous). It's not saying what you think it's saying at all. She isn't saying being a lesbian is 'degrading' she is saying that she thought allowing same sex marriage would 'degrade' (by which she means blur/ confuse/ change for the worse) the status of what a woman was and their treatment in society.

And you cannot argue that she has not been proven right. Even the UN now refuses to define a woman.

I don't agree that it is same sex marriage itself that has caused it (But then I don't know that she thought precisely that either), but the fact is Stonewall have pivoted to their anti-sex based rights, pro-gender, TRA stance since marriage equality was achieved, their initial aims seeming complete, and so they found a new cause to champion in order to keep the money coming in. Gay marriage has - inadvertantly - been the catalyst for Stonewall campaigning to remove women's rights and redefine homosexuality against the will of actual homosexuals.

This is not gay marriage's fault, nor does it make gay marriage a bad thing or even the voting for it a bad thing. It is entirely Stonewall's fault for choosing to champion a further, nebulous cause - not in line with their initial aims - just to stay on the gravy train. It is an act of corporate greed.

However, it is no bad thing for our lawmakers to stop and think of the full ramifications of any piece of legislation - no matter how honourable and just its intentions - before it is passed into law. Nor is it a bad thing for them to vote against that legislation if they think it is badly worded and that the ramifications will be negative and far reaching.

The baroness has said she thought the status of wome would be degraded following marriage equality being granted - as it was worded in the law she was voting on - and it has been.

Stop pretending that you think that means she has said that lesbians getting married is degrading.

Gay marriage has not degraded women. In fact it has given women the freedom to marry women.

She's just a homophobe coming up with imaginary reasons to deny lesbians and gay men freedom of choice.

Hearach15 · 02/07/2022 12:27

KittenKong · 02/07/2022 11:41

I see people around London posing with their little flags. It’s like carnival. I see people on twitter posting images of their ‘costumes’ (again like carnival - or a soho sex shop). It’s just one big party - nothing to do with gay rights.

Flags that show people support LGBT rights.

It's like how people put out flags to show they support the Queen a few weeks ago :)

(And yes, both Pride and Jubilee events were also parties - so what?)

Hearach15 · 02/07/2022 12:26

Helleofabore · 02/07/2022 11:10

Bring not being.

apologies

You still haven't told me how gay marriage "degrades women"? What examples does this noble and learned Baroness have?