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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Baroness Nicholson on Regent Street flags

385 replies

ChristinaXYZ · 01/07/2022 09:23

Her letter here:

twitter.com/Baroness_Nichol/status/1542733465157877760/photo/1

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7
FemaleAndLearning · 06/07/2022 00:26

Can I just post a link to You Tube The call us coming from inside the house.
This film shows nicely how the demographic of children who believe they are trans are now girls. Girls who say they are boys and chop off their breasts.

I am interested in understanding the nuances behind the Baronesses voting history but I have no doubt she voted the way she did to ensure the law was clear and abiding. I hope to meet her at a let Women Speak event and I will ask her. Unless someone has the real details not just soundbites and can share. Also people are allowed to change their minds.

aseriesofstillimages · 05/07/2022 23:12

FlirtsWithRhinos · 05/07/2022 22:00

@aseriesofstillimages

Like anything to do with how society changes over time it's a big and multi-layered topic.

That is my excuse for how long it's going to take to pull my thoughts into a shape that will make sense to anyone else!

I will definitely reply if I end up with a perspective worth sharing.

Thank you for responding, and for your refreshingly honest approach. I agree completely re the complexity of the question, and I often feel the same when trying to explain my views on here.

People like you are the reason I don’t give up on this forum.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 05/07/2022 22:00

@aseriesofstillimages

Like anything to do with how society changes over time it's a big and multi-layered topic.

That is my excuse for how long it's going to take to pull my thoughts into a shape that will make sense to anyone else!

I will definitely reply if I end up with a perspective worth sharing.

aseriesofstillimages · 05/07/2022 21:37

aseriesofstillimages · 04/07/2022 01:11

this is an interesting point, I often think about the precise nature of the similarities and differences between societal objections to LGB people in the past and to trans people today.

There is obviously the very significant difference, in relation to children and young people particularly, that accepting or declaring one’s same sex attraction, or acting on it, does not involve drugs or surgery. However, there is a degree of parallel with the way it was suggested in the past that a young person who ‘chose to pursue a gay lifestyle’ (possibly as a result of untoward, predatory influences) would catch AIDS or other diseases, or would be doomed to a life of loneliness, childlessness, and exclusion from normal society.

There is also no obvious similarity on same sex spaces, although I think it’s worth bearing in mind the way that gay people in the past were viewed as a potential threat in places like changing rooms where their (our) unnatural desires might pose a threat, or our presence might make others feel uncomfortable.

@FlirtsWithRhinos if you have a chance to come back on this I would be genuinely interested to hear your thoughts

Conflictedunicorn · 05/07/2022 12:51

Thankyou. Means a lot. You know how much I value your opinion and responses. I feel Yoder have dove it without your determined efforts to peak the world one Mumsnetters at a time.

Hearach15 · 05/07/2022 12:48

Conflictedunicorn · 05/07/2022 12:47

But headache, you said words can mean whatever people want them to mean, so I’ve now decided cisgender means non binary agender otherkin. . If you can define woman, I can define words as well.

As I said, I wish you all the best in your writing endeavours.

Conflictedunicorn · 05/07/2022 12:47

But headache, you said words can mean whatever people want them to mean, so I’ve now decided cisgender means non binary agender otherkin. . If you can define woman, I can define words as well.

Hearach15 · 05/07/2022 12:41

Conflictedunicorn · 05/07/2022 12:39

My character development arc for earache is comping along nicely. Zer is a non binary agender other kin who faces peril while trying to change the world …

As I'm cisgender, that is a character that does not sound like me, I have to say. But please write whatever you feel makes the book read well.

Hearach15 · 05/07/2022 12:40

"For me, transition was always about a feeling. For a long time, my body felt like a flat I was renting. It was never quite right. But it’s a home, now. One I have refurbished and I feel I can decorate. It doesn’t matter so much what it looks like. What matters is if it’s comfortable and safe. There are still a few, small, troublesome things, but they’re no big deal, they are okay. The walls are chipped a bit, I need to sweep the floors.

"It’s fine. I like it here. This is where I am supposed to live."

So wonderful to hear people happily living their truth! 😍😍😍

www.gq-magazine.co.uk/lifestyle/article/the-story-of-a-mans-face

Conflictedunicorn · 05/07/2022 12:39

Datun · 05/07/2022 12:18

But Datun, you and I know that I ceased posting for hearache’s benefit a couple of threads ago.

Yeah, I know 😁.

Still, it keeps 'em off the streets.

My character development arc for earache is comping along nicely. Zer is a non binary agender other kin who faces peril while trying to change the world …

Helleofabore · 05/07/2022 12:19

Datun · 05/07/2022 12:18

But Datun, you and I know that I ceased posting for hearache’s benefit a couple of threads ago.

Yeah, I know 😁.

Still, it keeps 'em off the streets.

😁

Helleofabore · 05/07/2022 12:18

Have you even read and understood the Cass interim report?

Datun · 05/07/2022 12:18

But Datun, you and I know that I ceased posting for hearache’s benefit a couple of threads ago.

Yeah, I know 😁.

Still, it keeps 'em off the streets.

Helleofabore · 05/07/2022 12:16

Oh… a swivel?

Look a squirrel! Over there!

Hearach15 · 05/07/2022 12:13

Helleofabore · 05/07/2022 12:10

yes. But Datun, you and I know that I ceased posting for hearache’s benefit a couple of threads ago.

I know that they have not read what has been posted. As can every other person reading this.

It is just another live demonstration of extremist activist tactics. It may work on twitter, (hence the constant one or two sentence replies), but we know it never works on long format posts.

"Extremist"?

I am not the one on this thread who came to defend Baroness Nicholson, the woman who thinks gay marriage "degrades" women, thinks two women should not have a family together and that a gay man having consensual sex with a 20 year old should be a criminal.

Might I suggest that she is the real extremist?

Helleofabore · 05/07/2022 12:13

Hearach15 · 05/07/2022 12:10

As I said, all I can do is link peer reviewed data on the issue from world leading universities.

All you can do is tell me it is too old and irrelevant to the trans kids of 2022 (even though the research will goes up to 2017).

I can live with siding with academics on this issue over someone on the internet.

And again zero critical thinking applied or any critical analysis.

Which study by the way are you trying to get to do all your heavy lifting of proof here?

Yale?
Cornell?
Harvard?

Helleofabore · 05/07/2022 12:10

Datun · 05/07/2022 12:04

Nope. Not what I have said at all.

Hearach isn't reading anything you're saying Helleof.

They appear to be just wildly pressing post, linking to the same few refuted studies, over and over, on thread after thread. Because, as they say, they are ideologically driven.

yes. But Datun, you and I know that I ceased posting for hearache’s benefit a couple of threads ago.

I know that they have not read what has been posted. As can every other person reading this.

It is just another live demonstration of extremist activist tactics. It may work on twitter, (hence the constant one or two sentence replies), but we know it never works on long format posts.

Hearach15 · 05/07/2022 12:10

Helleofabore · 05/07/2022 12:07

Over numerous threads now, hearache has shown a determined avoidance of engagement and comprehension of what people who disagree with them post.

I haven’t worked out what they honestly believe they are doing for anyone except showing that a group of people seem incapable of analysing data, reading widely enough to be able to apply critical thinking and analysis to what they read.

Or to move past a determinedly held prejudice about regular posters on this forum board.

As I said, all I can do is link peer reviewed data on the issue from world leading universities.

All you can do is tell me it is too old and irrelevant to the trans kids of 2022 (even though the research will goes up to 2017).

I can live with siding with academics on this issue over someone on the internet.

Helleofabore · 05/07/2022 12:07

Over numerous threads now, hearache has shown a determined avoidance of engagement and comprehension of what people who disagree with them post.

I haven’t worked out what they honestly believe they are doing for anyone except showing that a group of people seem incapable of analysing data, reading widely enough to be able to apply critical thinking and analysis to what they read.

Or to move past a determinedly held prejudice about regular posters on this forum board.

Datun · 05/07/2022 12:04

Nope. Not what I have said at all.

Hearach isn't reading anything you're saying Helleof.

They appear to be just wildly pressing post, linking to the same few refuted studies, over and over, on thread after thread. Because, as they say, they are ideologically driven.

GailForce10 · 05/07/2022 12:00

They don't appear capable of going off script and thinking for themselves. It's a familiar thing on forums unfortunately

Helleofabore · 05/07/2022 11:58

Hearach15 · 05/07/2022 11:51

Your argument is that because there are more of them they are fundamentally different?

That is the same for all subsections of LGBT people: www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-lgbt-stats-idUSKCN2D90VK

Are you saying that lesbian/gay/bisexual people in 2022 are fundamentally different to those in 2017 just because there are more than ever?

As someone who is actually involved in the LGBT community I can tell you the oldies are fundamentally the same as the young ones. Sorry to disappoint you on that one.

Nope. Not what I have said at all.

Datun · 05/07/2022 11:57

In the unlikely event that anyone is still reading Hearach's posts, this article explains some of the different motivations for 'transitioning'.

Including the recent phenomenon of rapid onset gender dysphoria. Also AGP ("Autogynephilia is a male’s sexual arousal by the fantasy of being a woman. That is, autogynephilic males are turned on by thinking about themselves as women, or behaving like women.")

4thwavenow.com/2017/12/07/gender-dysphoria-is-not-one-thing/

Hearach15 · 05/07/2022 11:54

Datun · 05/07/2022 11:49

Personally, I'm just taking that poster at face value, when they say "I am actually an ideological zealot".

it's just embarrassing now.

I'm proud to be an ideological zealot in favour of LGBT rights. Me and my pals deserve nothing less than full equality 😀

Hearach15 · 05/07/2022 11:52

Helleofabore · 05/07/2022 11:47

La la la la la

Is that what you have effectively done for the past x pages? Blocked your ears. To some very basic information that would provide you with your own answers?

Sorry my linking of peer reviewed data from world leading universities on this subject seems not to have pleased you. I will soldier on.