Good T**f, Bad T**f Julie Berchill article about Leftwing feminism

Yes the TRAs and MRAs are a vocal minority who consistently show their their right wing views. If we don't want a cancel culture though, we have to let them have their say.

Look at the state of public toilets - if someone believes the analogy is broadly true there is certainly an argument for preferring private!

Me too. I think it is also an age thing and a relative wealth in later life thing but I would be embarrassed to admit having been a Labour Party Member in public now. So tainted has Labour become by anti-semitism, Corbynism, gender-identity ideology etc

Being private property is infinitely better though lol

Love the "72 genders but only 2 political positions, left and far right" comment. So true

'And I’m the brilliant, boastful writer who is also – just this once, in my intent not to give my X to any party that doesn’t recognise my sex – the sensible one.'
I'm with Burchill on this one. As an ex-Labour party member anyone saying 'I'll never vote Tory because they are all evil etc' is not worthy of the right to vote, when free speech is now so heavily under threat. Freedom of speech and thought will not be easy to get back once it has been removed.

Stalin and that period are fascinating and tragic reflections about what happens when ideology trumps reality and the impact of that much delayed self-destruction. There are comparable mirror images in other ideologies that have resulted in atrocities.

Yup, ignoring the science and reality never ends well...
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism

To be fair, at some point, antifascist is going to return with an even-handed comment about Stalin's purges, the Holodomor, and what happens when you allow ideology to take precedence over science and/or policy such as the tragedy of collectivization.

Stalin and that period are fascinating and tragic reflections about what happens when ideology trumps reality and the impact of that much delayed self-destruction. There are comparable mirror images in other ideologies that have resulted in atrocities.

I remember the heady days of "our Judeo-Christian/Abrahamic ideas of redemption and salvation" when the Christians murdered the Jews on their way to kill the Muslims in the Crusades

imagine being multiple centuries old and still thinking and writing like a stroppy teenager. Like an Anne Rice character without the glamour.

The reason why it's embraced by the left and right in the UK is because they are deeply misogynistic parties.

our whole society is so misogynistic sexism often doesn't even register as sexism. It's invisible. Women are subordinated and seen as lesser than men - I really think that it's very hard for most people to see or acknowledge how deeply this attitude goes.

@AlienatedChildGrown you articulated a lot of what I feel.

It's reassuring to know that's it's not just me.

It's a male sexual rights movement, it's neither left nor right wing.

The reason why it's embraced by the left and right in the UK is because they are deeply misogynistic parties.

Both the left and the right know it's not popular, but as the left are authoritarian they think they can impose it on the electorate. Conservatives are probably wise enough to know that isn't going to work, so will have to distance themselves from it somehow or distract us with other issues and hope we don't notice the damage it does to women and girls.

Bugger off then.

Ta, Mangy.

I mean to say, within Judaism.

There are a variety of viewpoints/tradition on this question today and also historically. As you'd expect, there are some strong connections but also some differences as well as differences of emphasis with Christianity.

One thing I do know is that many men on the left and right hate women. Left wing men are just better at hiding it.

Bullshit is the trans movement right wing.

Again, I've just read that on wiki. Do feel free to explain otherwise.

'The Messiah in Judaism (Hebrew: מָשִׁיחַ, romanized: māšīyaḥ) is a savior and liberator figure in Jewish eschatology, who is believed to be the future redeemer of the Jewish people. The concept of messianism originated in Judaism'

'I believe with perfect faith that the Creator, Blessed be His Name, rewards those who keep His commandments and punishes those that transgress them.
I believe with perfect faith in the coming of the Messiah; and even though he may tarry, nonetheless, I wait every day for his coming.
I believe with perfect faith that there will be a revival of the dead at the time when it shall please the Creator, Blessed be His name, and His mention shall be exalted for ever and ever.'

From wiki on Judaism.

That seems rather a lot like redemption/salvation to me.

Is there not, antifascist? Jewish (in fact any) scripture isn't something I know much about. Is there no heaven, afterlife?

I remember the heady days of "our Judeo-Christian/Abrahamic ideas of redemption and salvation" when the Christians murdered the Jews on their way to kill the Muslims in the Crusades.

There is no redemption or salvation in Judaism, by the way

It makes for such crude politics though.

Religion, or theological treatments of this idea, tend to be based around the problem that we can intellectually understand the idea of justice or the good, and we believe it, commit ourselves to it, and yet we can see the world around us isn't like that, and we can't even make ourselves act in the way we know is right. It moves the problem from the world to a metaphysical level, and then the practical religion element is about providing structures to help individuals and communities do what is right and deal with wrong.

I have never been able to figure out how secular materialist philosophies can justify maintaining that confidence in justice or the good, and even more, claim that somehow that will be instantiated through normal political or historical processes. It's against all evidence.

And when you try and make it happen it's very ugly. Because you can justify anything to get to the Utopia.

This accounts for a huge advantage that parties like the Tories, or whatever equivalents there are in other places, have. They do have an idea of justice and the good, but not a sense that some inevitable (or even politically created) historical process can take us there absolutely. So any policy has to be looked at very pragmatically, what will it achieve, and what will be the trade-offs.

I don’t believe the majority on either side of the political spectrum want to make us property again. Public or private.

I believe that too many running the left, or very passionate about being the left think we owe them, like we as a sex class (rather than a singular political class) had nothing to do with our own emancipation.

I believe that too many running the right, or very passionate about being the right think resolving the myriad of issues that affect women would best be resolved by us fitting tidily back into more traditional sex based expectations of behaviour, desires, ambitions etc.

But I’ve found people on the centre and the non extreme right (talking generalities) at least more willing to have a conversation on the issues I think matter. People on the left (talking in generalities) are more willing to have a conversation only if nobody is listening in. Because at the present time they are the ones most likely to get socially shunned or hectored by their own tribe if they go beyond sanctioned slogans and “reality as I am expected to perceive it”.

That’s not to say there aren’t significant numbers on the centre or non extreme right who enjoy some hectoring or socially shunning of their own tribe. Some might be fairly recent refugees from the left and it’s a question of habit. But the majority have gone nowhere new politically. They just miss the good old days of “We Are The Morally Superior Political Class”, think the tide might turn that title back to them soon and have prematurely elected to knee jerk into bullying rather than thinking out loud in conversation.