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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Should I make a complaint?

57 replies

GatherlyGal · 29/06/2022 13:50

So I was recently admitted to hospital with a gynae problem.

After 3 or 4 hours in A&E and feeling very faint and generally crap I was seen by the doctor who said he'd have to examine me before gynae would come and look at me.

To do the exam he said he'd need a chaperone and he called in a nurse. The nurse was wearing a women's uniform but was very obviously male - rainbow glasses, rainbow badges, lanyard etc.

Of course I SHOULD have objected but I didn't twig immediately and I just wasn't with it enough or brave enough to challenge. The nurse was fine and just stood behind the doc looking a bit awkward.

It just seems crazy to me to go to the trouble of finding a chaperone but choosing another male.

Would you complain? I am thinking more of other more vulnerable women particularly who have suffered abuse. If I had been asked I would have said "no thanks" but bringing it up myself was too difficult in the circumstances.

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Carriemac · 15/07/2022 09:21

It's really important to complain - whenever I challenge new policies at work such as this they always say ' but no one has objected or complained '

Also if it's a new policy to have opposite sex chaperones ask them for the equality inpact statement which they are obliged to do

ihavenocats · 14/07/2022 20:51

achillestoes · 29/06/2022 13:53

I’m sorry that happened to you. What I would suggest is writing to the hospital first to ask for the logic for the doctor requiring a chaperone (don’t say anything about male/female: question that fact that, for you, it meant two people in the room seeing you naked rather than one).

I wonder if they will say it was because you are female...

This is the best idea. Instead of going all in and allowing them to fob you off, you go in stages.

I am assuming it's so that you have another female in the room?

Then write back and ask them for their definition of female, in writing, as a formal request.

What would they say then? "anyone who identifies as female"

Now, did they ask you if you identified as female?

334bu · 14/07/2022 20:42

They might respond by saying that you should have asked for a female chaperone if that is what you wanted. But many women, when unwell and vulnerable, might not feel comfortable to do so. It really demonstrates that unless one has the experience of being female, it's hard to comprehend how these situations feel, how vulnerable we can feel.

Exactly.

Moreover, if women are asked by a male HCP if they wish a chaperone, I am absolutely sure that every one of them would expect the chaperone to be female and wouldn't even think to ask specifically for a woman.

Itsincidental · 14/07/2022 20:33

I think you should be able to choose the sex of the chaperone. It seems obvious to me that most women would prefer a female chaperone. Hopefully you can tell the A and E consultant that.

They might respond by saying that you should have asked for a female chaperone if that is what you wanted. But many women, when unwell and vulnerable, might not feel comfortable to do so. It really demonstrates that unless one has the experience of being female, it's hard to comprehend how these situations feel, how vulnerable we can feel.

Re having to take what you get in A and E - I've worked in A and E and my experience has been that the departments I've worked in try to take the patient's needs into account. I can think of situations where I've been the only female doctor and have been requested by my seniors to see women as the issue has been one where seeing a male doctor might have been distressing.

I'm sorry that didn't happen for you

MrsOvertonsWindow · 14/07/2022 20:31

So sorry about your experience GatherlyGal and sorry that the NHS don't understand the importance of respectful sex based care. I can guarantee that if you were a Muslim woman, that doctor would have found a woman chaperone.
Sadly they're all so captured in the NHS they can't even use the correct word sex - it's all the amorphous "gender".

You should not have been put in that position.

GatherlyGal · 14/07/2022 20:27

@Blue4YOU very sorry to hear what you have been through.

I'm not sure what you mean about looking at me in a sexual manner. That is not the point at all. I think that's a pretty low bar for medical professionals! It is about feeling comfortable since I was losing a lot of blood. Neither man offered a pad for the bed or for me or seemed to understand that as I was bleeding heavily then getting naked would be very messy. I asked for a pad and was brought a pantyliner.

I believe having a woman in the room would have made a difference.

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MangyInseam · 14/07/2022 20:26

I think that you need to be clear whether it's more their policy you want to complain about, or that it wasn't communicated clearly. Based on what you originally said to them, I think they probably thought the latter, whereas it seems like maybe it is really more the former.

I think it's not uncommon that the policy is just that there be two people rather than one needs to be a woman.

I doubt they would want to have no chaperone, I understand the preference as it's also what I would prefer, but the doctor will probably see it as important for himself.

WarriorN · 14/07/2022 20:23

They make a point of it being female

WarriorN · 14/07/2022 20:23

Musomama1 · 29/06/2022 14:02

OP I had a check with my doctor recently in the breast area so not even as intimate as your appointment and she offered me a chaperone. The doctor was already female, perhaps gender doesn't come into it and they need two people there.

But having two males is a bit of an odd choice, not very commonsense as you might have found it very intimidating to be outnumbered.

I've always been offered a female chaperone at my Gps. Haven't always taken it but it's always been female.

Blue4YOU · 14/07/2022 20:18

I’m going to disagree with you OP - but not because it’s A and E and you take what you get.
I was assaulted by a male paediatric consultant in a hospital. One I knew well and would never have thought I’d be at risk from.
Its not nice to ever have intimate examinations.
However - for instance when I had my last c-section, the entire team were male. I can’t imagine why that would be a problem as they were all competent medics.
I think what is distressing for you is legitimate- no-one wants an unwanted person looking at you but you’ve also perhaps got to remember that it is policy to have- or usually offer - a chaperone for vaginal/anal/breast etc examinations. The medic in question should not be invested in looking at you in a sexual manner.
Thats where the protection for the clinician comes in - they have an extra pair of eyes to ensure the examination isn’t inappropriate. They are there for you and for the doctor (of whatever sex).
Thankfully most male medical staff do not see women or examination of women as sexual. Unfortunately, as I know personally, that’s not always the case.
I’m arguing that chaperones (I mean in the course of my legal action) should be standard and opting out should be something stated clearly.
its unfortunate that you felt uncomfortable with the chaperone as they appeared but I doubt he was there for the show. And I’m one of those constantly getting berated for being a “terf”, but in your situation I’d have been glad of the chaperone

Catsdrool · 14/07/2022 20:09

RoyalCorgi · 14/07/2022 18:35

It is absolutely rage-inducing to read this thread alongside the thread about the anaesthetist sexually assaulting women having caesarean sections - and all the other similar examples in the Twitter thread.

Women are always vulnerable to male assault, but particularly so in a medical setting.

Yes - that’s why there’s a chaperone.

GatherlyGal · 14/07/2022 20:03

@Whitehorsegirl given the choice my personal preference for an intimate examination would be a female doctor BUT of course in a&e you take what you get.

My issue is that without discussion the doctor brought in a chaperone - after he had asked me to undress. He did not ask if I wanted one or explain I had to have one he just brought in another male. There were many woman around and about.

I believe a lot of women would prefer not to be naked in front of 2 men. The doctor could have made my experience easier by bringing a woman into the room but he chose another man.

I don't think its that difficult to understand really.

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Whitehorsegirl · 14/07/2022 19:57

I find what you are saying confusing.

You were already being looked after by a male doctor. You could have asked to see female doctor as the examination you needed was the gynae type if you were uncomfortable/felt vulnerable with a man conducting it. You would then have also asked for a female chaperon.

The second person is just there to check/confirm that nothing inappropriate is happening. They don't have to be a woman.

Are you suggesting that any male healthcare professional is a potential issue?

Doctors in A&E are not mind-readers, they are not going to be able to work out you are having an issue like this unless you clearly tell them. Their priority is to examine and treat patients in a stressful environment.

What would your complain actually be about? were they not professional? did they actually do/say something that made you uncomfortable ? did you not get the right treatment?

The fact that they are male, which they can't do nothing about, is not in itself a reason to complain. The NHS is not always going to be able to give you female staff....they are busy keeping people alive.

GatherlyGal · 14/07/2022 19:18

I agree @RoyalCorgi.

The letter asks me to arrange a call with an Emergency Dept senior clinician if I remain dissatisfied so I will do that. I wonder if the response will be that you get no choice of the sex of the chaperone or (worse) that the chaperone was a woman?

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RoyalCorgi · 14/07/2022 18:35

It is absolutely rage-inducing to read this thread alongside the thread about the anaesthetist sexually assaulting women having caesarean sections - and all the other similar examples in the Twitter thread.

Women are always vulnerable to male assault, but particularly so in a medical setting.

GatherlyGal · 14/07/2022 15:15

@Redlake are you suggesting I was wrong about the person being male? Sometimes it is hard to tell. On this occasion it was not.

Believe it or not the chaperone info on the website makes no mention whatsoever about the sex of the chaperone or the patient.

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YetAnotherSpartacus · 14/07/2022 14:36

Sounds like it is all about protecting the mens and fuck the women.

RoyalCorgi · 14/07/2022 13:56

Nothingoriginalhere · 29/06/2022 14:24

The chaperone is to protect the healthcare worker from allegations of assault and to protect the patient from assault - it doesn’t matter what gender they are.

How dare you gaslight women like this? Absolutely disgusting. Of course a chaperone should be a woman.

334bu · 14/07/2022 13:32

And a nurse wearing rainbow coloured accessories must be a male?

I think there were probably a few other give aways regarding this person being male.

Redlake · 14/07/2022 13:22

He needed the chaperone to protect himself against any false accusation. And a nurse wearing rainbow coloured accessories must be a male? Really?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/07/2022 13:20

I would ask them to put in writing this "process of chaperoning". It might even be on the website somewhere?

AlisonDonut · 14/07/2022 13:03

It isn't the process hat is wrong, it is the sex of the chaperone that isn't made clear prior to the chaperone being let into the room.

They are so sneaky aren't they, making out like it was you not understanding the process.

GatherlyGal · 14/07/2022 12:40

So I've had a response to the issue I raised:

We are sorry that you felt uncomfortable during your examination, and that the process of chaperoning wasn't made clear to you. We have relayed your feedback to the clinician seeing you, and he will ensure he makes his communication regarding chaperones clearer in future.

We hope this letter answers your concerns, however if you remain dissatisfied ....

Not sure how to respond to it. The letter does not actually explain anything about the "process of chaperoning" so I could ask for clarification but it seems having 2 males in the room for an intimate exam is not something the hospital thinks in inappropriate.

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GatherlyGal · 01/07/2022 16:43

@jetadore I wasn't thrilled by there being 2 males (however they were dressed). Although maybe there is also the point that the male doc went to find a chaperone and must have thought he was doing the right thing by asking the person in female clothes. That is a problem because of @Ramblingnamechanger 's point - does the NHS believe gender ID has now replaced sex?

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Ramblingnamechanger · 01/07/2022 14:53

I think for intimate exams most of us would prefer a chaperone who is the same sex, this person was male and having two males isn’t really going to be reassuring for a female patient. The NHS has been know to lie about the sex of other patients on a female ward so they are equally likely to lie about the sex of their personnel. Hope you get better personal care next time, or that you won’t need it OP

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