Go on, Nadine, you’ve nearly got it

Also I have to say that now I think about it, I’ve known coworkers who did that word swap thing. One of them was super good at it and had me fooled for years till I realised she never understood what she was talking about.

Anyway, the coworkers I’m thinking of both displayed a lot of NPD symptoms. I assumed there was a connection but I’ve never heard anyone talk about it!

🧐Not apropos of nothing, it genuinely concerns me that so many people are so empty-headed that they’ll swap around and substitute words from arguments they’ve seen in other contexts and not even consider whether it makes any damn sense.

I don’t think they are bots, but a competently coded bot could do better. I’m not kidding when I say it concerns me. What happens inside their minds when they type this shit? Once you start denying that simple words like “woman” have a meaning does some kind of degenerative process kick in till you’re eventually communicating on Internet forums in language that is grammatical enough but entirely fucking meaningless?

Fuck Nadine Dorries whatever she says - if she said the sun was shining and it was - she's still scum. Looks like a Tory distraction 'look over there thread' and anybody quoting here as the start of an OP has an agenda.

I agree. God knows how anyone fell for it in the first place.

I don't believe there should be a legal footing for males to force other people to deny their sex.

The GRA should be repealed. It gives legitimacy to an idea that, firstly has no basis in reality, and secondly is used to disadvantage and exploit women across the board.

When a bit of legislation is allowing rapists access to incarcerated women, surely to God, you know it's wrong.

I'm so pleased to see this and totally support repealing the GRA. I think one of it's side effects is to prop up the very old-fashioned views of men and women which sit behind trans people's identity as trans. If we accepted the category of 'man' to be an entirely biological statement (like most of us here do I think) then we can separate out a person's identity and let them feel free to identify as they please. I think many TRA can't see it but it is their stereotyped thinking IMHO which leads them to take the position they do. You can't 'identify' in or out of a purely biological concept and indeed it sounds silly to try and do so. Their real objection is to identity restrictions and I think they have wrongly attached that to biology. The GC position, again in MHO, is a much more liberal one, or at least can be.

The other reason the GRA should be repealed is that it has ridiculous draconian privacy clauses (because it was intended to allow someone to pass through life as a woman/man without anyone knowing the truth). This situation is largely obsolete, most trans people are proud to be trans and the majority of them do not pass. Yet technically for sharing knowledge relating to this obvious fact people in official capacities face criminal prosecution, even the possibility of a jail sentence.

@WhereYouLeftIt But the governing bodies for each sport are international, not sure how a piece of British legislation has that much power.

Repealing the GRA wouldn't had a direct effect on TW in women's sport, you're right. But I think it would have an indirect effect.

As long as it exists we have the governing bodies of sports being misled as to what their legal responsibilities are, plus they can then hide behind 'we were only fallowing the Stonewall Law'.

Once the GRA is repealed these bodies cannot be misled, and they cannot hide. They would have to justify, and take responsibility for, allowing males in women's sports. All they'll have to back them up is 'be kind' and 'inclusion', which cannot stand up against 'fairness'. They'd be staring down the barrel of legal challenges aplenty, and I don't think they can afford that.

At the end of the day, it is the governing bodies that matter most. They set the rules. Repealing the GRA will bring about a change in those rules.

Plus, lets remember why the GRA came into being. It was a fudge because same-sex marriage was at that point illegal and the government didn't want same-sex marriage. Well, it's legal now. The GRA is superfluous to its original function, and does create more problems (so, so many) that it solves (none, now).

It's the most true expression of it I've ever heard by a politician.

"The legal pretence that they can or have changed sex is not compassionate. It is harmful. It creates more problems than it solves (if it solves any problems at all). It removes integrity and reduces clarity."

That's a carefully crafted statement! Shoots 'be kind' right out of the sky!

As far as I'm aware none of the trans athletes competing has a GRC or any legal documentation announcing that they've changed sex. So not sure what difference the GRA makes in regards to trans competitors in sport.

It's good to see the government making a statement, but it is up for each sport's ruling body to make the relevant changes.

No doubt we will be able to play catchphrase bingo with "culture war", "wedge issue", "distraction" by those who don't want to debate the issue, but attack the political party.

This is how Stonewall have managed to get as far as they have in wrecking everything for women.

They basically lie to organisations and groups with lines like

"TW need unfettered access to women's spaces or it's discrimination. You don't want lawsuits now do you?" and because Stonewall are held in esteem, people just swallow everything their fed by them, are afraid of accusations of phobias and not getting their equality accreditations, but it's all based on nothing but lies.

It's not discrimination to exclude TW from women's anything let alone sport which is the most obvious, because excluding them is proportionate and legitimate (EA2010 words).

apparently, some of the sporting bodies are frightened of legal challenges. FFS, inclusion is not a right. they need to grow a pair. read the legislation.

I think the way ‘born in a body they don’t recognise ‘ was a more understandable phrase. But this is not the reality of most claiming trans status. Yes agree that the GRC should be removed and the GRA repealed.

It's time to repeal the GRA.

Sorry. You do not got far enough. We have no idea if any trans people believe the meaningless nonsensical concept of being born in the wrong body. We know that some people claim to believe that they were born in the wrong body.

Yes!! Go head on, Nadine!

Brilliant. And I love the 'belief they have been born into the wrong body' bit. Yes, it's an unproved 'belief' that others don't have to subscribe to.

Wonderful Nadine, ovaries of steel 💪