Is Pride really just turning in to one big kink fest?

I’m not really getting this. I think if you’d been to a pride march 20-30 years ago you’d see plenty of pretty raunchy stuff, depending on which city you are in, though not necessarily as part of the parade.
I think you’d be fantastically naive to take kids to a Pride event, and in my very limited experience from 20 odd years ago they are events dominanted by exuberant, young, intoxicated men, and with correspondingly wobbly boundaries.
Im sure there has also been massive encroachment from corporate interests and from the TQ element too, but as a baseline proposition, no, don’t take your kids to Pride.

Thank you for writing this so I didn't have to. I haven't been to Pride for many years for these reasons. I can't understand why so many people I know still go and excuse all the male indecent exposure, the drag queens, the leather pups with 'Oh, but it's Pride.'

@Artichokeleaves 👏👏👏

no good trying to push the American idea here that the only people who care about and speak against the appalling assault on gay and women's rights and children's safeguarding from the TQ+ lobby are nasty nasty religious right conservative nuts ….. We do not have the American right here. …. It would be better to face up to the reality of what this actually is, which is a political lobby with extremist views that have one fucking ton in common with the far right and other authoritarian totalitarian regimes.

This.

They've been bounced out.

Like women have been bounced out of women's spaces, sports, resources, refuges.

If this is pointed out, there's a whole raft of deflection to avoid facing it such as far right conservative religious transphobic patriarchial old saggy titted dinosaur rights hoarding privilege inclusion beeeekind yada yada yada hurled in the hope that people will just shut up and put up.

No. Done now.

An interesting point, Purg. I hadn’t thought of that, but it makes sense.

We also know many (most?) transwomen are heterosexual too, as they demand the right to have sex with lesbians. And transactivists totally oppose LGB groups.

Heterosexual vs gay. Much to think about there.

Applauds artichoke.

No, disagree entirely.

We don't have a far right in the UK: you can't import the American one over here. In America our Tories are centre left and probably a bit more. And the original Pride did what was needed about dealing with getting used to seeing two men or two women kissing or holding hands, no this change in feeling is absolutely nothing to do with conservative views at all. And I say that as a lesbian who was actually marching at Pride in the section 28 days.

It is the TQ+ lobby and their pushing and overpublicising and forcing kink into non consenting people's faces and insisting that it's a 'normal part of LGB' (no, involving non consenting others in your sex life/being an exhibitionist really bloody isn't - that's just being an inappropriate pita, regardless of your orientation) and pushing it until it's a straight corporate fest, and getting men in drag being very inappropriate with kids and calling it inclusion - that is what has blown this all apart and will take down all of us. The swinging of 'homosexual' to mean anything at all (but not homosexual cos that's like being a nasty racist) the swinging of language to make 'woman' a dirty word and make everyone 'people' (which is default male) is all the gender ideology lobby's fault. They have to own that. They don't give a damn either, they have no care or interest at all in women or gay people, only in how they and their resources can be used.

And it's no good trying to spin this as being mean to poor trans people, this is the TQ+ Political Lobby . The difference being that they only and exclusively represent the interests of trans people who do what the political lobby want and are quite shockingly vile to TQ+ people who step out of that line or want to voice any other views. This is not T people, this is TQ+ politics. They are not the same thing.

And no, again, no good trying to push the American idea here that the only people who care about and speak against the appalling assault on gay and women's rights and children's safeguarding from the TQ+ lobby are nasty nasty religious right conservative nuts who don't like women and gay people (and so you don't have to listen or care what they say) - get a grip. Many of the women fighting on this in the UK are LBGT+ ffs. We do not have the American right here. I'm sorry that's inconvenient to your arguments, but this is a false trail. It would be better to face up to the reality of what this actually is, which is a political lobby with extremist views that have one fucking ton in common with the far right and other authoritarian totalitarian regimes, because all this bullshit is breaking down further and further by the day.

Please can we stop talking about Laurence fg Fox. And the poster who name checked him as 'talking commonsense'?!! And who basically said that the LGB community are all good now and should 'dial it back'?*

I think we're going to be hearing a lot more from him now that LGBA and KJK are working with him.

😡

Definitely lost its focus. As others have said, it used to portray that gay and lesbian people are ordernary people and give them courage to come -out. It would provide support to this community.

I remember chatting to a gay work colleague about Pride who said it’s has served its purpose, and he wouldn’t touch the modern pride movement at all.

It would be nice to think that the people pushing kink at Pride and the people pushing “family friendliness” just disagree, and stuff like the OP are a result of the movement being pulled in different directions. I think that’s true to some extent.

But it’s all got a bit Rainbow Dildo Butt Monkey/ Family Sex Show where it seems like kids being exposed to men who want to expose themselves is a feature not a bug.

And I don’t even see how gay people can claim it back from the QT types.

murders were done by religious extremists - I don't think that negates more acceptance in mainstream society.

Yeah, since the update you can't do strings of asteriskes any more. I've been using ×, like so: f×××××g.

F☆☆☆☆☆g could work too, if you want to be emphatic!

Well it appears I can no longer properly censor the word so I will write it out in full - Laurence Fucking Fox. There you go - much better 😁

Please can we stop talking about Laurence f*g Fox. And the poster who name checked him as 'talking commonsense'?!! And who basically said that the LGB community are all good now and should 'dial it back'?

Just hold still while I take a screenshot won't you?

As someone else noted, an interesting 1st post...

Ok - "sorry everyone has to put it away".

Err - yes. Yes they do do.

I don't give a shiny shit if you want to play pony/dog, wear adult nappies or get a thrill from a gimp mask and a whip in your own home or in an exclusively adult setting.

But I don't think that's appropriate to be on the street in daytime in front of anyone - never mind children.

There is no pride to be found in PRIDE anymore. It's a safeguarding nightmare in plain sight, that hides behind terms like "kink shaming".

I wonder how many of these CEO's who fund PRIDE actually take their own children to the "puppy" tents.....(answer is probably none - because it's virtue signalling but they are happy to sponsor events where that's normalised),

I'm a lesbian and proud but I don't attend pride. Obviously I understand the reason for pride of course I do but I got sick of it years ago as to me just seemed like a hook up fest- at least where I am anyway. No judgements, just not for me.

So what should they do then? Hide away, not have it any more as their presence is triggering for some straight people?

No need to hide away, just stop the gimp/dog outfits etc in public.

Absolutely agree, although I also remember lots of people displaying fetish type stuff 20 years ago, I would never have classed Pride events as kid friendly . Do what you like in the bedroom between consenting adults, but no need to display it on the street. I am a lesbian btw.

And there are several comments in this thread proving that for many, the behaviour of the TQ+ lobby has impacted on how they see LGB people, and they will reject us too when they throw out the insane thinking of the queer politics agenda
Nothing to do with Conservative/ far right views then?
All the fault of pesky trans people stepping out of line and demanding too much?
It's horrible to have to point out, but people who see "a problem" with the T aspect can easily have "a problem" with the LGB bit too.

I feel like, as a country, we're being punished for ridiculing the straight men who used to demand 'Straight Pride' marches. They didn't shut up and go away, as hoped. I think the straight male exhibitionists just found ways to join in on Pride.

...what on earth?

• A previous poster said Pride/activism for LGB people had 'gone far enough' and needed 'dialing back'
• I responded with some examples of why events that celebrate and encourage acceptance of LGB people were still sorely needed
• You accuse me of lecturing women about male violence?

As the PP referred specifically to LGB people, I almost entirely cited incidents that were regarding sexuality, not gender identity - the quote I pulled about the ONS stats on hate crimes does mention it, but I deliberately included the one about crimes regarding someone's sexual orientation to ensure the point wasn't missed: regardless of whether some of the increase in hate crime numbers is related to trans people, the number of crimes relating directly to sexual orientation is also on the rise.

And it's - for the purposes of my argument - irrelevant who perpetrated any of the crimes I mentioned, or the abuse I mentioned. Do we just say, "nah, women of mumsnet, you're right, as you're women and statistically don't generally commit hate crimes against LGB people, you can think Pride has 'gone far enough' now and no longer need to care about homophobia or even think gay pride should be toned down a bit"? Just because it's not MN readers committing these crimes doesn't mean we should tell The Gays to simmer down a bit.

I find it very strange that you would see me defending the need for events that celebrate LGB people and feel like I might need knocking down a peg or two, tbh.

I agree that there seems to be an unintended consequence of all the Pride stuff….more homophobia
So what should they do then? Hide away, not have it any more as their presence is triggering for some straight people?
I’ve been told for many years I’m a cos vanilla / straight/ privileged white Karen etc. that it does start to grate: I’d like to think we are more than who we chose to shag, but yeah, it grates on you over time.
I guess I'm a "cis (think that's what your typo was as not sure what cos is?) vanilla straight/privileged white Karen " too but the difference is the mere presence of Pride doesn't grate on me.
I can see why it is needed.