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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

You’ve lost menopause now in the UK

61 replies

TheSandgroper · 28/06/2022 12:05

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10957533/Now-NHS-quietly-removes-word-women-MENOPAUSE-page.html

OP posts:
Abra1d1 · 28/06/2022 22:16

bellinisurge · 28/06/2022 16:51

There's a reason a lot of "GC" people are women going through the menopause. Some stupid little scrote with no life experience trying to tell women going through a major life changing biological process that biology doesn't matter. Dickwipes. And we are supposed to trust Our NHS with this biology denial shit.
It's never ejaculators and prostate havers.

Every time I have a hysteroscopyneeded because my menopausal female body won't play ballI have to remind myself that my femininity and womanhood is just an identity I have chosen and I have no particular right to be called a woman and given some dignity.

AlisonDonut · 28/06/2022 22:13

OverTheRubicon · 28/06/2022 21:28

@AlisonDonut It is not ok. Because there are two sexes. The belief in which, means you are Gender Critical.

And how would you define those sexes? Is it chromosomal? Having a uterus? Vagina or penis? Because there are people born with XY chromosomes and a uterus (Swyers) or XX and male genitalia (de la Chapelles). Where do they sit in the 2 sex world?

To be clear, I think it's ridiculous and actively dangerous to remove the word 'woman' from menopause or cervical cancer pages, and am very concerned by what is currently happening in women's sports and even more in women's changing rooms and more still in prisons.

However, the idea that there's an (unironically) binary simple solution to all this, doesn't align with biological reality let alone the society we currently live in. It's right to acknowledge that, alongside focussing messages on the 99% of people who would benefit from being addressed in a straightforward way.

Well.

There are not one sex. Otherwise - no babies.

There are not 3 sexes. There are not 4, 5 or 6 sexes.

There is not 2.5 sexes. Or 2.154 sexes.

Two sexes. Some abnormalities.

Like, humans, are bipeds. Two legs.

Some people are born with fewer, some with none, some with abnormalities. But we are still bipedal humans.

This is what I mean about despair, and you say we are the echo chamber?

Two sexes. No more, no less. That's it.

sweetgrapes · 28/06/2022 21:52

All this is really not being done to benefit intersex people or people with DSD's.
Even stonewall has finally taken them out of the umbrella. Check out intersex in the glossary.

www.stonewall.org.uk/help-advice/faqs-and-glossary/list-lgbtq-terms

The word woman is being erased at stonewall's behest to prove inclusion for trans people - not intersex /DSD.

It's because transwomen have laid claim to the word woman - and tw do not have female biology. So anything to do with female biology has to be distanced from the word woman.

CandyLeBonBon · 28/06/2022 21:32

OverTheRubicon · 28/06/2022 21:28

@AlisonDonut It is not ok. Because there are two sexes. The belief in which, means you are Gender Critical.

And how would you define those sexes? Is it chromosomal? Having a uterus? Vagina or penis? Because there are people born with XY chromosomes and a uterus (Swyers) or XX and male genitalia (de la Chapelles). Where do they sit in the 2 sex world?

To be clear, I think it's ridiculous and actively dangerous to remove the word 'woman' from menopause or cervical cancer pages, and am very concerned by what is currently happening in women's sports and even more in women's changing rooms and more still in prisons.

However, the idea that there's an (unironically) binary simple solution to all this, doesn't align with biological reality let alone the society we currently live in. It's right to acknowledge that, alongside focussing messages on the 99% of people who would benefit from being addressed in a straightforward way.

Girls with Swyer syndrome have an XY chromosomal makeup (as boys normally do) instead of an XX chromosomal makeup (as girls normally do). Despite having the XY chromosomal makeup, girls with Swyer syndrome look female and have functional female genitalia and structures including a vagina, uterus and fallopian tubes.

Please please do not use people with DSDs as a gotcha. DSDs occur in either males or females and are NOT evidence of third or other sexes and it's horrendously offensive to suggest otherwise. I have been working with people who suffer with these conditions and they are heartily bloody sick of it.

Live4weekend · 28/06/2022 21:31

Although I do wonder - if you are a child now whose gender identity has been validated and actively encouraged by your parents and school, how the fuc will you know what you are when you are older?

How will you know if its a prostate of a cervix you have?

I am joking a bit - but i don't think it's completely unfeasible.

And they are going to be a hell of a lot of law suits against parents / teachers / Dr's - 'you told me I was a girl and now I have prostate cancer'.

Moreicecream · 28/06/2022 21:30

Really angry and have sent this feedback to: digital.nhs.uk/about-nhs-digital/tell-us-what-you-think-of-our-website
"To complain about the blatant sex discrimination against women on your website, which is probably already costing women their lives.
The description of ovarian cancer (a gynaecological cancer - it only affects women): "Anyone with ovaries can get ovarian cancer, but it mostly affects those over 50."
Do you imagine that all women (and their friends and families, who may notice symptoms) know what ovaries are? Including those for whom English is not their first language? You are wrong.
The description of testicular cancer, which only affects men: "Cancer of the testicle is 1 of the less common cancers, and tends to mostly affect men between 15 and 49 years of age."
No possibility of not understanding that it affects men, is there?
Stop putting women's lives at completely unnecessary risk. And stop showing that you care about men's lives but that women's lives are, in your view, valueless and can be sacrificed for woke points.
This can be seen over and over again on your website. Women are half of your service users. Why don't they matter to you?"

OverTheRubicon · 28/06/2022 21:28

@AlisonDonut It is not ok. Because there are two sexes. The belief in which, means you are Gender Critical.

And how would you define those sexes? Is it chromosomal? Having a uterus? Vagina or penis? Because there are people born with XY chromosomes and a uterus (Swyers) or XX and male genitalia (de la Chapelles). Where do they sit in the 2 sex world?

To be clear, I think it's ridiculous and actively dangerous to remove the word 'woman' from menopause or cervical cancer pages, and am very concerned by what is currently happening in women's sports and even more in women's changing rooms and more still in prisons.

However, the idea that there's an (unironically) binary simple solution to all this, doesn't align with biological reality let alone the society we currently live in. It's right to acknowledge that, alongside focussing messages on the 99% of people who would benefit from being addressed in a straightforward way.

Live4weekend · 28/06/2022 21:23

I don't get why they just can't have links to pages.

Menopause- all about women.

If you are a transman going through menopause click here.

If you are non binary click here.

This will take you to a page with terminology that will validate you.

AlisonDonut · 28/06/2022 20:53

OverTheRubicon · 28/06/2022 19:33

@AlisonDonut so in your assessment, if you're not fully aligned with the Gender Critical viewpoint, you can't support any part of it?

There are a ton of people - including me - who you may not agree with but could be helping make inroads with what you care about. Maybe in time more of us might come to your view. But it's such an echo chamber in this particular part of MN, that it feels like anyone who isn't ready to loudly denounce any poor soul who dares to state their pronouns when asked to by HR is actively unwelcome. You're not the only one despairing.

The gender critical viewpoint - is that sex exists.

That's it.

Artichokeleaves · 28/06/2022 20:05

Hurrah for Javid.

The push back is really needed now from government. Either we have law makers who enforce compliance with actual law, or we have the country run by people who just make stuff up.

achillestoes · 28/06/2022 20:01

Javid tweets: ‘Language matters. I have made clear that the word “woman” should not be removed from health pages. I have been assured that the changes highlighted below, as well as others, are being reversed.’

EaselArt · 28/06/2022 19:37

Complained

OverTheRubicon · 28/06/2022 19:33

@AlisonDonut so in your assessment, if you're not fully aligned with the Gender Critical viewpoint, you can't support any part of it?

There are a ton of people - including me - who you may not agree with but could be helping make inroads with what you care about. Maybe in time more of us might come to your view. But it's such an echo chamber in this particular part of MN, that it feels like anyone who isn't ready to loudly denounce any poor soul who dares to state their pronouns when asked to by HR is actively unwelcome. You're not the only one despairing.

SallyLockheart · 28/06/2022 19:26

Put in complaint

Braggiography · 28/06/2022 18:45

Free text boxes, btw. And you can submit anonymous report/comment.

925XX · 28/06/2022 18:04

What a load of utter Bollocks! emailed.

tootiredtobother · 28/06/2022 17:58

Emailed, so cross I can hardly type

Snowinsummer · 28/06/2022 17:55

I've emailed.
I'm beyond sick of this now

Waterfallgirl · 28/06/2022 17:52

Thank you for highlighting this!

Just like many others I am sick of this now - I have emailed Javid also.

(On the other hand I had to break my rule of never reading the DM!)

AlisonDonut · 28/06/2022 17:48

TheABC · 28/06/2022 17:40

I would be bloody thrilled if we had truly 'lost' menopause. Who wants hot flushes, mental fog, constant tiredness, vaginal atrophy and all the other lovely side-effects of this hormonal change?

The NHS erectile dysfunction page refers to men. The menopause page can refer to women.

Osteoporosis?

Yes I'd love to lose that completely.

CandyLeBonBon · 28/06/2022 17:42

I have also written

TheABC · 28/06/2022 17:40

I would be bloody thrilled if we had truly 'lost' menopause. Who wants hot flushes, mental fog, constant tiredness, vaginal atrophy and all the other lovely side-effects of this hormonal change?

The NHS erectile dysfunction page refers to men. The menopause page can refer to women.

AlisonDonut · 28/06/2022 17:35

OverTheRubicon · 28/06/2022 17:31

I'm on the generally non-GC side of MN, and wouldn't hugely mind (except from a clunky language sense) if pages said something along the lines of 'women / people with wombs'. But removing women, when too many people already aren't aware of the details of women's health, is not ok.

Note that the prostate cancer page still says men many many many times www.nhs.uk/conditions/prostate-cancer/

It is not ok. Because there are two sexes. The belief in which, means you are Gender Critical.

I despair I really do.

Clymene · 28/06/2022 17:33

Thank you for the link to Javid's contact details. I've emailed him. I'm furious about this.

OverTheRubicon · 28/06/2022 17:31

I'm on the generally non-GC side of MN, and wouldn't hugely mind (except from a clunky language sense) if pages said something along the lines of 'women / people with wombs'. But removing women, when too many people already aren't aware of the details of women's health, is not ok.

Note that the prostate cancer page still says men many many many times www.nhs.uk/conditions/prostate-cancer/

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