Another go woke go broke - McCains

What are you basing ‘predictors love drag’ on exactly?

Because that sounded horribly like you were insinuating that drag performers are paedophiles but that can’t possibly have been what you meant because that’s completely batshit.

@Braggiography Bloody brilliant posts 🔥

Advertising agencies are often filled with sexist views

Drag is a great excuse to have a go at women in a it’s hilarious and look who’s ‘prone to offence’ as put by pp

I’d agree with this too unfortunately. There are many, many drag performers out there that don’t fit into this category though and Bagga is one of them.

They are - The Vivienne often does male characters (famously Trump), Victoria Scone is an AFAB drag queen and is everywhere right now.

Bagga got this gig because he’s literally called ‘Bagga chips’ and it’s a chip company. Honestly it’s not that deep.

It hasn't 'lost its way' - it's been co opted by people who know exactly what they are doing.

We don’t disagree - I agree that the mainstreaming of drag has caused it to lose its way.

I don’t disagree with you - there’s an incredibly long history of men dressing as women, not always parody, not always related to drag culture, not even always meant to be comedic.

Theres an equally long history of your absolute right to disengage from content that offends you, I just think it’s important to highlight that drag performers on the whole are very very far from misogynists. Most identify with the drag scene because that’s where they ‘fit’ - they hate the gender roles assigned to them by society in the same way that feminists do.

I spend a lot of time with drag performers so my views are formed by that in the same way that some of the views here are formed by drag race and twitter.

I think if you feel offended, disengage from the content. It doesn’t appeal to you and that’s ok. If drag performers are getting work that’s a great thing, they’re woefully underpaid as performers on the whole and opportunities like this are great and very rare. Bagga will appeal to huge number of people who are less prone to offence, men and women alike. He’s a fabulous performer and does a great job of parodying shock comics of the 70’s and 80’s.

I do appreciate though that the mainstreaming of drag has caused it to lose a hell of a lot of nuance and it definitely doesn’t come across in a 30
second ad.

drag isn’t designed to offend women and at its heart is actually about challenging gender stereotypes

May I point out 'Anna Bortion', 'Miss Carriage', etc.

Drag right now is a tired, dull, faux-subversive corpse-twitch of sex stereotypes. Many men use their 'queen' persona to make vicious attacks on 'fishy' women, mocking women's bodies, women's oppression, women's perceived weaknesses. Corporations LOVE the chance to get some cheap thrills out of trashing women from the safety of a rainbow-washed progressive-painted clown act.

Drag is visually eye-catching, it's tame, safe, and seen as mildly edgy - why on earth do you think all the corporations are so gleefully jumping on the dragwagon? If it was genuinely challenging anything there is no way on God's green earth a company selling processed foods would be using it and its shitty 'innuendo' to try and flog face-shaped potato waffles.

It's funny how it's not drag acts like yours that are being used by big brands to sell their products though isn't it?

drag isn’t misogynistic

Holy wow.

Except drag never was about challenging gender stereotypes at all, and you can only say that if you’re ignorant about where it comes from and also think gay culture started in about 2003 or get all your information from Twitter and YouTube.

Is Mrs Brown’s Boys about challenging gender stereotypes? What about the Pythons or the Two Ronnies when they dress up in drag? Still funny and subversive? Because both of those are far closer to the origins of drag and minstrelsy than Bagga Chipz or RuPaul are.

I’ve not dismissed anyone, in fact in my first post I reiterated absolutely everyone’s right to be offended at whatever they like (or don’t). I’m not telling anyone to calm down or be quiet - I’m outlining the view that drag isn’t designed to offend women and at its heart is actually about challenging gender stereotypes. Having a different opinion to you isn’t silencing you. We can all speak.

It’s not only women - I have had men approach me after gigs and tell me they found my set offensive. I have a bit where I parody a mediocre white guy which often causes issues for actual white men. It’s a bit that comments on getting promoted above your abilities because you have a penis and the usual argument I get is ‘not all white men are incompetent so your set is offending me’ - thing is, my set isn’t saying ‘all white men are incompetent’ and yet that’s what they read. Unlike here, I do actually tell them to piss off

You might think drag is a subversive gay practice @Leftonread , but that is only one very recent part of its history, and you can only read it as such by ignoring its much longer history as a misogynist and racist performance tradition.

It’s a shame that LGBT culture has such lack of historical perspective that it forgets where many things come from.

Lesbian feminists in the second half of the twentieth century largely rejected drag culture as part of a long history of misogynist portrayals of women.

Drag was also seen by many gay men for a very long time as a pejorative form of gay culture which played up to straight perceptions of gay men as effeminate, tasteless and crude — a sort of uncle Tomism if you will. Most gay and lesbian people in the 80s and 90s found it utterly cringe as well - a really old fashioned kind of parody of gay culture beloved by middle of the road straight audiences (Dame Edna etc).

It’s only in the last couple of decades that it’s been mainstreamed as some kind of “queer” celebratory culture. But its origins are actually in music hall, minstrel performances and variety shows: it didn’t start as part of gay liberation by any means.

The over the top innuendo is part of the social commentary - it’s ‘isn’t it stupid that this is how we think of women’ not ‘this is how we should think of women’.

Honestly at this point it’s like you want to be offended.

Why the fuck is it only ever women who aren't allowed to be offended by people who taking the piss out of them? Why is it only us who get told 'you are overreacting dear, you just don't understand the joke dear'.

Loads of women find drag offensive for the reasons stated on this thread, why don't you listen to them instead of just dismissing them? Would you do the same to other groups who tell you that they find something offensive?

You should research the history of blackface minstrelsy and drag in the 19th and 20th century and you will find it has a longer and very complex history. “Female impersonators” were among the very first blackface performers, and blackface “mammies” with fake breasts (knockers, indeed) were some of the most popular of minstrelsy shows and parodic songs depicting female slaves.

SOME drag performers do this, not all. You’re generalising massively there.

It’s not about pretending to be a woman and then mocking her, it’s about taking the piss out of the IDEA of femininity and all the things we’re told a woman should be.

Gaslighting bolleaux.

If this were actually the case then drag queens wouldn't use terms like 'fishy' to describe drag queens who 'pass' as women and wouldn't use drag queens names like 'Anna Bortion'.

The over the top innuendo is part of the social commentary - it’s ‘isn’t it stupid that this is how we think of women’ not ‘this is how we should think of women’.

Honestly at this point it’s like you want to be offended.

I showed the advert to my dc (20) who said it was ‘weird’ and ‘interesting’. He also said it served its purpose as everyone is talking about it!

I actually agree a drag act is an odd choice here - I’m assuming it’s because of Bagga’s stage name and nothing else.

no one is saying it being part of gay culture excuses misogyny - drag isn’t misogynistic. It’s the diametric opposite. Drag is a commentary on society’s expectations of women which are deeply misogynistic.

The more mainstream drag becomes, the more that message is lost I think. If your only exposure to drag culture is drag race and twitter I can absolutely see how you could find it offensive though.

Ironically, Bagga is one of the many many good eggs.

I had to listen twice because I thought I must have misheard the word knockers. God I've not heard anyone use that term for decades. It's not art, it's not an act, it's gross and sexist.

Women are no more marginalised than gay men

How ridiculous.

Yes, I mean there is nothing sexual about drag queens is there? It's not like their entire shtick is based almost solely on sexual innuendo. And what's sexual about 'big knockers'? Nothing at all!

Much bigger things to be fighting against, so in the meantime we might as well sit back and cheer on as these men objectify and take the piss out of our bodies whilst also expecting us to buy their products - yay!!!