Another go woke go broke - McCains

DadJoke was one of the ones who mentioned it last, even. The point didn't take off, so he's having another go.

If.

Might be an idea to read the thread before commenting - that’s already been trotted out….

The school took DS to one once. He announced very loudly that he didn’t like it.

and how can you compare widow twanky with Anna Bortion? and I’ve never seen a pantomime dames pant bulge, or naked moobs.

Nope, never taken my kids to a panto. Never understood why they're so popular in the U.K.

If you are complaining about drag and innuendo and you've ever taken your kids to panto, you are a hypocrite.

It’s amazing isn’t it

And it’s not just lighten up we get in return

this is an ad appearing on kids YouTube videos. Which are aimed at err children.

Someone also said this on Twitter.

I suspect I’m not their target audience as I don’t buy frozen junk food. But all the same it’s a crap ad.

I’m often amazed by 20-30 year old women who swallow all this sexist crap. Kids and teens are ‘getting it’ now.

The thing is that sexism is so baked into our world that it's virtually invisible. It's astonishing when you start to notice how often when someone says 'people', they actually mean 'men'.

A million tiny shades of subtle sexism - historic and present - pervade every situation.

This is why women are an invisible group whose thoughts are easily discounted, whose feelings don't matter, whose experiences are brushed aside. In order that we can centre the really important issues; those of men.

So our feelings that ridicule of our body parts ('knockers') is unpleasant, offensive, hurtful, all get brushed aside with 'it's a laugh, lighten up'. But a gender non-conforming male is so worried about his ego getting damaged by someone not recognising his invisible innate gender identity that we are expected to embrace his entry into women's single sex spaces - not only embrace, we're to celebrate it.

Apparently. But taking the piss out of any other group is evil and wrong. Where were all these people telling women they’re wrong to object telling trans people they’re wrong for objecting to Ricky Gervais or Dave Chapelle? Or is it only women who can’t object to being mocked by a bloke

l don’t have a narrow idea of what drag is, and I understand you see it as ‘punch down’ humour because you feel like women are the butt of the joke. THAT view is narrow. Drag is so much more than that and always has been.

So it's still the 'if you don't like it or feel it's taking the piss out of women, you're narrow minded'?

Leftonread glad you you found drag empowering. I don’t. As someone with large breasts I’ve thought about just cutting therm off because living with them is so humiliating. Jokes by shit comedians like bagga chips empower males of all ages to joke about them, they make my breasts public property where males think the accompanying joke or banter lets them sexually assault me by feeling my breasts at the same time. I hate hate hate these jokes they make my life miserable. Bagga chips can just fuck off as can McCain

My voice is female. I am a woman. We don’t speak with a single voice. We can disagree
Exactly, and same

Benny Hill isn’t really a drag act is he? He’s a comedian that sometimes dresses up in womens clothing to do sketches that ridicule women

I just wanted to ask how a drag queen is not 'a comedian that sometimes dresses up in womens clothing to do sketches that ridicule women'? There's a gnat's arsehair between Benny Hill dragging up and FloJob dragging up - the difference being no politicians ever took Benny Hill into school to preach diversity and inclusion to children.

As far as I know, admittedly I've not checked.

Agree that it's good to discuss this stuff and have civil disagreement - nice talking to you Leftonread.

Now that is sharp.

So if this was a man not in drag making these jokes would it still be edgy and clever, or would it be misogynistic, sexist crap? It is because the bloke is in woman face that we’re all supposed to think this is funny? Why does him putting a dress and makeup on make this acceptable?

Oh and if you want to learn more about how music hall drag acts developed out of blackface minstrelsy, there are some resources like:

black-face.com/minstrel-female-impersonators.htm

www.researchgate.net/publication/330026007_Transgressing_the_Gender_Divide_The_Female_Impersonator_in_Nineteenth-Century_Blackface_Minstrelsy_from_INSIDE_THE_MINSTREL_MASK

Notable drag minstrels:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Leon

Fair enough - I think the situation for women doing drag is slightly different. Drag kings do have a claim to subverting performance norms - but I would suggest largely because it’s an inversion of drag itself, rather than part of it. I’m afraid I see male drag though as entirely and tediously sexist, and as pp have said, also getting a free pass for misogyny because it’s considered LGBT (though it didn’t originate as such).

It’s no more subversive about gender roles than this is, and just rehashes the same tired old tropes about women’s breasts that have been going on for literally centuries of male comedians using drag as a source of cheap gags:

Thanks for that, I’ve listened and it’s been interesting to read the other side and I largely understand and mostly disagree, which isn’t a bad thing.

It’s one of those really nice situations where debate can be heated but stay respectful. I will say that absolutely doesn’t exist in the drag community

I’ll pop off now because my DS needs a bed time book but I’ll finish by saying that as a 14 year old woman with no tits and a better beard than my dad, drag was empowering for me because it gave me an outlet that fucked with gender norms. Ironically dressing like a bloke made me feel like a woman at a time in my life when society was telling me that to be a woman I needed to look and act like one. It was characters like Bagga (not him specifically he’s far too young) that gave me a new perspective before the days you could find that kind of acceptance with a hashtag. I’m older now, my PCOS is mostly controlled and I’m so excited that girls like me have hundreds of communities to choose from now that will accept them exactly as they are. It pains me that had I been born 15 years later, I would have ended up as a trans man because the internet would have told me my body was telling me I should be male before the drag community had a chance to scream at me to fuck the expectations of my gender and wear a flannel shirt and just take the total piss out of everyone who thought I was a bloke already. I’ll always love them for that even if some of them do make shit tit jokes and don’t know what a vagina smells like. most of them have never seen one anyway

Ugh. It is simultaneously offensive, dreary and dull.

I expect a creative director to be behind the scenes, having a vision and orchestrating to make their vision happen. Not on camera shamelessly self promoting something that is ultimately just a bit shit.