Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Boris Johnson speaks again

159 replies

achillestoes · 27/06/2022 06:48

He says if you’re born with a penis you’re a man. He reiterates his three concerns about trans issues: Gillick competence for children receiving transitioning treatments, women’s spaces, sports. He says we need to treat people with sensitivity but he sees no reason to dissent from what FINA say is appropriate in women’s swimming.

These comments are reported in the Daily Mail and he made them on his Rwanda trip.

OP posts:
achillestoes · 27/06/2022 11:01

Possibly, @BellaAmorosa

OP posts:
BellaAmorosa · 27/06/2022 11:01

Mandodari · 27/06/2022 09:45

Good that he said something but it means nothing if he doesn't inact legislation to keep single sex spaces and do something about the harresment of women by the trans mafia. Deeds not words.

Yup. I agree 100%.

BellaAmorosa · 27/06/2022 10:58

achillestoes · 27/06/2022 09:36

I think Starmer did say he thought the Bridges decision was correct. But that just tells me he cares more about sports than about female victims of rape.

Or that he agreed that in these specific circumstances - Bridges' registration not being in order - exclusion from the female category was technically correct? That would be very "on brand" for Keir Starmer.

FemmeNatal · 27/06/2022 10:56

GCRich · 27/06/2022 10:55

I am not a conspiracy theorist, but I am someone who thinks that assuming no conspiracy is almost as silly as believing all the conspiracies.

I think it would be incredibly naive to think that no-one on the right has surriptitiously pushed a TRA agenda in order to further divide the left.

And that is before we get onto the idea that TRA agenda (individual rights trump the rights of society, you can be what you want with no concern for others etc) are right wing ideas not left wing ones. The TRA agenda is more right wing than it is left. It very much suits the right that the left is "the identity left" and not an "economic left" fighting for greater equality.

What? This is absolutely coming from the left.

Who on the right do you see pushing this?

GCRich · 27/06/2022 10:55

ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus · 27/06/2022 07:24

I loathe the tories. But one thing you can’t blame them for is the ‘culture war’. The gender identity movement, with all its attendant censorship and misogyny, is pushed by liberals and those who call themselves left wing. Conservatives have no reason to back it. They (like most people) know that humans can’t change sex. And they have no political reason to pretend they do.

I am not a conspiracy theorist, but I am someone who thinks that assuming no conspiracy is almost as silly as believing all the conspiracies.

I think it would be incredibly naive to think that no-one on the right has surriptitiously pushed a TRA agenda in order to further divide the left.

And that is before we get onto the idea that TRA agenda (individual rights trump the rights of society, you can be what you want with no concern for others etc) are right wing ideas not left wing ones. The TRA agenda is more right wing than it is left. It very much suits the right that the left is "the identity left" and not an "economic left" fighting for greater equality.

TullyApplebottom · 27/06/2022 10:54

MarshaBradyo · 27/06/2022 09:29

Even if a woman displays characteristics that a gendered society associates with men why does it matter?

They are still a woman.

That HH quote amazes me for the sheer length some will go to shoot themselves in the foot

The left is rotten with this sexism and always has been. I’ll go to my grave without ever voting Labour again. Boris may be awful but at least he will be gone one day. Labour will never get rid of this sexism. It’s who they are.

achillestoes · 27/06/2022 10:53

‘Stella Creasey has stated unequivocally that “a transwoman is an adult human female".’

You wouldn’t buy a second hand wheelbarrow off her, would you?

OP posts:
FemmeNatal · 27/06/2022 10:52

Circumferences · 27/06/2022 10:50

Stella Creasey has stated unequivocally that
"A transwoman is an adult human female".

The word female is not safe with the Labour Party.

Yes, “female” has now fallen too. It seems to have happened quite recently, in the last couple of years.

No-one should be surprised that once “trans women are women” was established as normal that female would be next.

BootsAndRoots · 27/06/2022 10:51

Politician is asked if women can be born with penises by journalists, journalists then claim said politician is stoking culture wars and not focusing on the important issues or using it as a distraction for whatever political scandal.

Circumferences · 27/06/2022 10:50

sashagabadon · 27/06/2022 10:31

Re. Starmer I think he has to be pushed on this issue by using the word female not women. So female sports. Can he say that he thinks female sports should be protected. Saying womens sports allows for the trickery that using “women” does.
But he can’t say female as it does beg the follow up question of so you do think female sports should be protected but you don’t think female prisons should be? Or hospital wards? Or rape crisis centres? It’s very hard to then argue that safety, fairness in female sports ( as important as they are) are MORE important than safety and fairness in these others areas. And I think everyone knows this hence the pushback.

Stella Creasey has stated unequivocally that
"A transwoman is an adult human female".

The word female is not safe with the Labour Party.

BellaAmorosa · 27/06/2022 10:49

FemmeNatal · 27/06/2022 09:24

Gender politics. The claim is that they were not “real” or “proper” women.

They were.

Precisely, @FemmeNatal
Feminists fight for the right of all women to hold power. even those we disagree with and those who are not feminists.

achillestoes · 27/06/2022 10:49

No, Starmer hasn’t.

Yes, Johnson does wheel this out as a distraction but on this occasion he was asked the question. And it’s important to remember the placement of Truss, Javid, Badenoch, Zahawi, Dorries, Kishwer Falkner etc support the view that he has intended to move in this direction for a while.

OP posts:
Floisme · 27/06/2022 10:45

Has Starmer met with the Labour Women's Declaration yet, you know like he promised?

And yeah, it's curious how Johnson only ever seems to bring this up when he's in the shit.

sashagabadon · 27/06/2022 10:31

Re. Starmer I think he has to be pushed on this issue by using the word female not women. So female sports. Can he say that he thinks female sports should be protected. Saying womens sports allows for the trickery that using “women” does.
But he can’t say female as it does beg the follow up question of so you do think female sports should be protected but you don’t think female prisons should be? Or hospital wards? Or rape crisis centres? It’s very hard to then argue that safety, fairness in female sports ( as important as they are) are MORE important than safety and fairness in these others areas. And I think everyone knows this hence the pushback.

achillestoes · 27/06/2022 10:25

‘That’s a disappointing thing for Harriet Hartman to have said about female Tory PM’s. Like them or not they were women.’

I was really disappointed as well. She was trying to argue the next Labour leader needs to be a woman, but she just looked like walking defeat.

OP posts:
sashagabadon · 27/06/2022 10:23

That’s a disappointing thing for Harriet Hartman to have said about female Tory PM’s. Like them or not they were women.

Ramblingnamechanger · 27/06/2022 10:06

Meanwhile it seems that Spain is now to go for self identity in legislation. For children too. They don’t seem to have informed themselves on the problems that it will throw up.

MalagaNights · 27/06/2022 10:04

Johnson is a liar and a political opportunist.

He's decided it's expedient to tell the truth on this. Only men have a penis.

Starmer is a liar and a political opportunist.

He's decided it's in his interest to continue to lie about this. He thinks it's the lie his party want him to tell.

It's politics. There is no purity. If you're looking for the side that never lies and always has the moral high ground that's when you'll be 'homeless' because you're naive.

For me this is one issue where the lie is so fundamental and in opposition to obvious reality, the fact Starmer is prepared to say it still floors me.

achillestoes · 27/06/2022 09:47

‘I’ll chuck a tenner on Kemi being the third, or fourth female Tory PM before Labour ever pick one as a leader on the basis that she’s the best bet they’ve got to win an election.’

Definitely.

OP posts:
Mandodari · 27/06/2022 09:45

Good that he said something but it means nothing if he doesn't inact legislation to keep single sex spaces and do something about the harresment of women by the trans mafia. Deeds not words.

EdgeOfACoin · 27/06/2022 09:45

HappyHappyHermit · 27/06/2022 08:12

Starmer is not PM and I haven't seen enough of him to decide, I suspect you could have a more sensible and open debate with him though. Johnson has proven he is a liar and cannot be trusted. He treats women like dirt on his shoes.

Plenty of women wrote to Starmer about this when he became Leader of the Opposition. I was one of them.

He chose not to listen and has thrown his hat in with the people who believe that women can have penises and that the definition of 'woman' rests on some nebulous feeling of inner femininity.

Starmer knows about this issue and he doesn't care.

AlienatedChildGrown · 27/06/2022 09:43

achillestoes · 27/06/2022 09:00

The other day I was listening to Harriet Harman talking about female Tory PMs. It was pointed out that the Tories have twice elected a female leader. ‘But they did it by out-manning the men,’ she said.

What does that even mean?

Presumably they weren’t “womanly” enough to count as actual women ? “Womanly” being a bigger claim to “real womanhood” than being an actual woman these days.

Being small c conservative on some issues puts more of a question mark over your female status than having a penis according to some people I’ve disagreed with on SM. So a big C will deffo get you disqualified.

I’ll chuck a tenner on Kemi being the third, or fourth female Tory PM before Labour ever pick one as a leader on the basis that she’s the best bet they’ve got to win an election.

achillestoes · 27/06/2022 09:36

I think Starmer did say he thought the Bridges decision was correct. But that just tells me he cares more about sports than about female victims of rape.

OP posts:
Circumferences · 27/06/2022 09:35

Starmer is utterly useless.

He spoke about "supporting women's sports" recently, in light of recent swimming announcements. This is an infuriatingly meaningless statement from him seeing as he supports self-ID, meaning "woman" = "anyone"

"I support anyone's sport" doesn't really cut it when there's a blatant clash of rights in sport.

achillestoes · 27/06/2022 09:31

‘Don't you know? Margaret Thatcher and Theresa May might be women , but they aren't the right sort of women.’

Harman said something about Labour women trying to change the whole system and Thatcher and May being content to work within it. No idea what she means. I suspect Labour is just full of unreconstructed old sexists like David Lammy, who would rather call us dinosaurs while talking out of his backside than listen to us.

OP posts: