I was at a party last night

Re Private Eye - I went to a meeting in Central London a few years ago, before lockdown, and spotted Francis Wheen in the audience. He is very senior at Private Eye and I surmise that he is the one writing the stories they feature regularly now on this debate. There's a very sceptical tone which is markedly different from most of what you see in the Guardian or the Indie.

I was pleased when Richard Dawkins finally said something GCish a few months ago as I have been baffled by the silence on this issue of so many prominent humanists and atheists. Of course, in some cases, they're not silent, they're full on in their support of gender ideology. Alice Roberts, for example.

I kind of understand why Ben Goldacre has kept stum, although I find it disappointing. Robert Winston has only spoken up quite recently, and is probably too eminent to be cancelled, and nearing the end of his professional life, which must make a difference. Mid-career academics have to think about grant funding, promotions etc, and nowadays adverse feedback from students can do an academic a lot of damage.

I remain convinced that it was a masterstroke of the gender ideologues to convince Stonewall etc to move from LGB to LGBT. Stonewall had built up a lot of goodwill by the clever and engaging way they campaigned for gay rights in the 1990s and 2000s. My impression is that many people are keen to show that they are not prejudiced in the matter of gay rights, and without ever thinking about it they have just assumed that that means they have to agree with gender ideology too. It's not remembered that Stonewall only went from LGB to LGBT in 2015.The fact that they are two different things and that there is a clash of rights there has gone right over most people's heads.

The clash of rights with women's rights is not seen as anything important because of deeply ingrained misogyny, of course. More important for us to be kind than safe.

@Ramblingnamechanger that's really chilling. thought control in action

It will only be a matter of time 😱

Yes! (Not that I was there, despite my views apparently dating from the Jurassic Age).

But ”Hey Harry, gotta say I’m with Clem on this one” would have had far greater consequences then than merely losing one’s social circle and job.

Beheading, anyone?

Just been with 30 years friend plus other friends of hers. We all know we have different views on all this but I was told when I brought in a flippant comment to basically shut up. I was upset by this but held myself back and the chat rolled on. At the end of the evening friend said thank you for not saying anything. I expressed my view that what really upset me was the silencing ,which is why we are in the position we are in now. And of course that the other friends views/ friendship were apparently worth more. Was told we wouldn’t be invited if we couldn’t keep quiet. Partner and I very upset particularly as we would have judged all those present perfectly able to talk about the issues involved. It was particularly bad as we had been involved in some small actions over the weekend which no one wanted to hear about, and were feeling quite depressed about what we see. Wish there were more who could support us nearby. This is the only issue which is dealt with in this way, apart from maybe Brexit.

Good to know @ChagSameachDoreen; thank you. I'll pass that on.

Funny. This is the exact technique I use on my exh when he goes off on a 'poor me' diatribe. Very effective.

I'd like to think that the second time after meeting me that would change, but I doubt I am as good as I'd like to be.

I learned to keep my opinions to myself (apart from with one particular group, which includes my DP, who are all firmly GC) after a party at my home. My own brother was almost spitting with disgust at me, and insulted me in the worst ways. My sister was backing me up for all she was worth and he still persisted. Eventually I threw him out and I haven't really spoken to him since, although on the few occasions I have had to he makes his opinions of me very clear.

Apparently some 'friend' of his, who was a transwoman, was more worthy of support and consideration than his own sisters and nieces. My sister and I wonder if he, in fact, is the 'friend'- there are some grounds for believing it's a possibility. But he and his cohorts are painfully 'woke', so perhaps it's just that.

It was a real shock to me, as I thought I knew him well enough to know that even if his views differed, he was intelligent enough and loved his sisters and nieces enough to have a civilised debate about it.

And perhaps that's part of the issue- that even people you think you know well can turn out to be such complete and utter wankers on this topic, in the current climate.

Having similar experiences here - it comes up, and women immediately say they can't speak.

Female socialisation has a fuckton to answer for; an acquaintance related being v uncomfortable when a male walked into her gym changing room while she was undressed. Her daughter had made her cry with the 'oh but imagine how she felt' line.

I pointed out that the one thing this person clearly hadn't thought was 'I'm going to upset and alarm a bunch of women, I don't want to do that'. And therefore was thinking along the lines of 'fuck them, what I want matters more'.

The relief as she said 'you're right, women matter, I'm a MOTHER not a birthing person' was palpable.

A lot of people are keeping their heads down, saying the right thing and waiting for the tide to turn.

True. And I acknowledge that we're in danger of the tide not turning in time to save some people. We may end up with similar consequences to other times in history when we all went along with the unacceptable, waiting for the tide to turn. Hopefully, they'll be a much smaller scale yet devastating for those at the heart of it.

the trans thing came up and EVERY SINGLE TIME the person I was talking with said oh I’m not not getting into that/I’ll be in trouble if I say what I think/don’t get me started I’ll never stop and it’ll offend somebody.

It might not feel like it, but this ^^ is actually progress.

Once upon a time, you wouldn’t have even been able to allude to any sort of dissent on this issue.

Honestly, to even hint at this is genuinely is progress. The blinkers are coming down, and the dam is slowly giving way.

Keep the faith.

Yes, I've thought that too. A lot of people are keeping their heads down, saying the right thing and waiting for the tide to turn.

I used to talk more openly but a local activist in a position of power called for all GC feminists where I work to be sacked - can't really be more specific than that- and nobody objected. I can't speak openly. I'm scared of being reported. It really is chilling.

I loathe "cis woman"

Oh and also, I really don't want to be called a "cis woman" but protesting against it makes for all kinds of unpleasant situations.

I work in a very left liberal sector, which up until now I have always appreciated, because I am left liberal! I am now GC ( wasn't always), but it would definitely be career ending for me if I expressed it in the workplace or on social media. I once hinted at it, and people reacted as if I was supporting apartheid or the KKK. I was shouted down with cries of "straw men" when I brought up issues like sport, prisons and rape centres. There is an absolute terror of not being 'inclusive" and people compare it to not including black or brown people, when it's not the same at all. But critical thinking is scarce these days.

Though recently tbh I find I literally only have to mention “gender identity stuff” to any women I know over 40, and she immediately rolls her eyes and goes into a satisfying rant about how ridiculous it all is, and then we have an enjoyable time terfing away for a while

That's my experience in my circles too. Which give me hope.

Colette Colfer is an Irish academic who studies world religions; she wrote an article about the parallels between religious belief and gender beliefs
www.broadsheet.ie/2022/04/26/colette-colfer-a-new-religion/
"in Ireland, when it comes to gender identity theory, it is becoming difficult to adopt the phenomenological perspective as there is increasing pressure to accept this theory uncritically......... To suggest that gender identity theory is a new religion is not to denigrate the theory."
Interestingly, she was originally due to publish her article in the Irish Times (mainstream broadsheet) but was pulled at short notice.

I have kids, I have to protect my family by staying silent.

I understand the sentiment, I too don't express my views forcefully in all situations. However, I think I agree with Kellie-Jay Keen that it's very brave to not speak out.

Anything less than TWAW is transphobic, so expressing that at a party is like walking in and announcing you're racist. That's how effective the slogans approach has been.

Amongst my friends I know who is GC, who is TWAW, and who hasn't been paying attention. I can see that the TWAW ones don't fully grasp it (eg one wondering loudly at a women's event why there was a man there when the event was clearly billed as being 'inclusive' and it was obvious this person would identify as non-binary - this was some years ago so I suspect now she would know to suppress those thoughts) but these are people who are generally fairly non-questioning and have accepted the narrative that anything else is phobic.

I have also noticed that it never comes up on HIGNFY and agree it is because it is career ending, and likely also because the target audience tends to be left leaning. It would be interesting to see what would happen if Hislop got into it, tbh I think Merton would be more likely to get away with it. Either way I wish we had some strong left leaders willing to speak up about this. I think there are so many on the left who can see the issues here but are scared to speak out for fear of being seen as bullies. The victim narrative has been very effective.

I wonder if people have absorbed the chilling effect of social media cancellations and even job losses
This is it. I can’t afford to get reported to my boss and disciplined over a private comment made down the pub at the weekend. I can’t afford to lose my job over personal opinions. I don’t want to be arrested and questioned by the police. I certainly don’t want to be harassed and receive death threats. I have kids, I have to protect my family by staying silent.

No doubt, but it makes his whole fearless challenger of authority schtick a whole lot less convincing.

I find total silence to be very powerful in the midst of a ‘be kind’ virtue-signalling session.

Delivered meaningfully, silence can actually stop a person in their tracks, mid-flow. It’s like they can suddenly hear themselves talking shit.

I find it satisfying.

I hope IH is playing a longer game.

I hope there is a longer game....