Roe V Wade - intersex, binary and trans

Well said

Can't we use woman and explain that we mean sex, not gender?

There were also amazing, ahead of their time women who organized - UK women who boycotted sugar and understood that what they bought for the household was supporting slavery (every grain of sugar a drop of blood.) That experience taught women they had purchasing power and many of the tactics learned in the slavery abolition movement by women - petitions, boycotts - were used in the suffragette movement as well. Women in Manchester factories recognized the cotton they wove came from plantations and they understood working class white women had solidarity with enslaved people through their exploited labour. Women recognized they were patriarchal property in marriage and tied that to slavery. And so forth. There’s a long history of feminist organizing in solidarity with other movements!

And yes, my “hobby horse” is knowing accurate feminist history and not propagating ahistorical and false myths about organizing and social movements that don’t help us to organize collectively in the present. I was simply responding to the idea that “Suffragettes included all women” which really isn’t true for the whole movement, and it’s important we actually tell women’s history accurately especially since it’s so erased and ignored. Without understanding that past we end up in a present where some women still can’t manage to think about the place of women who aren’t white in women’s movements. We aren’t taught these histories so it’s important to talk about them when it arises.

A very important point, especially in this context, as it is the same women who are suffering disproportionately from transgender issues. In the USA it is poor women, often WOC, who are being forced to share homeless shelters, domestic violence shelters etc with male people. They are also more likely to be incarcerated and have to share cells, showers etc with male offenders. Ignoring the fact that some women are more marginalised than others only helps the Patriarchy.

Charming language there, 'imbecilic', delightful. And it wasn't what I was saying at all, but perhaps your hobby horse is picking fights online so let's not let what was actually said get in the way of a row.

No, I’m not giving up “women’s rights” because some people want to identify out of being women. I’m not talking about “reproductive rights” or “abortion rights”. They’re women’s rights. Women are being treated as if they don’t matter on a number of fronts, and we need to say so.

I mean that suggesting that I need to also campaign on racism or the class system is imbecilic.

If they are what you care about that’s fine, but maybe stop trying to tell others that they are doing it wrong if they have different priorities to you?

And yes, my “hobby horse” is knowing accurate feminist history and not propagating ahistorical and false myths about organizing and social movements that don’t help us to organize collectively in the present. I was simply responding to the idea that “Suffragettes included all women” which really isn’t true for the whole movement, and it’s important we actually tell women’s history accurately especially since it’s so erased and ignored. Without understanding that past we end up in a present where some women still can’t manage to think about the place of women who aren’t white in women’s movements. We aren’t taught these histories so it’s important to talk about them when it arises.

You did nothing divisive OP. It is very much in the interests of those who wish to strip women of our rights, to divide us into ever smaller disparate groups rather than understand ourselves as one sex class which comprises 51% of the population.

Abortion overwhelmingly affects women. Women’s Rights Matter captures the issue for the majority. People are also free to make “nonbinary abortion access matters” hashtags too presumably, but acknowledging that women are the majority of those affected shouldn’t be a problem.

Exactly👆

Some people just reflexively have to virtue signal. Father's Day has now become 'virtue signal about people without fathers' day, where people flash their moral superiority and kindness using other people's tragedies rather than actually speak with any genuine care or discretion, and without care for trashing the day and the people who do value that day in many ways. It's the keeping up with the Jones's in the modern liberal age.

And there's unfortunately also the Blair strategy beloved of his days in power: if there is any publicity, public attention, strength of feeling, interest, emotion, grab it by inserting yourself in there and benefit from it. Rather like he did his best to do with the Queen Mother's funeral. This is what you get from cold corporate capitalism without conscience.

You seem to be suggesting in your final paragraph that women of colour aren't women? WTAF?

I've had an argument on insta with someone about this whataboutery as well. Really pisses me off. Identities and pronouns don't mean jack shit when women die because they are denied abortions.

Oh, they’ll raise FGM or forced marriage when it’s convenient to be used for their argument about women’s oppression, but then if women from those cultures also say “yes, we care about this issue but also about having our hijab ripped off in public, or being screamed at for our accent or not speaking English, or being sterilized in an ICE detention facility, or having a maternal death rate 10s of times the rates of white women” that’s a “hobby horse” and offensive.

Sorry forgot to bold Mishy's quote.

think the thing is you put in something divisive that is away from the issue of Roe v Wade and its implications for all women, and those who also have women anatomy
It wasn't the OP who put in something divisive. This issue only affects members of the female sex who until very recently had a name " women" ; a name which they are no longer allowed to use in the context of female biology because it upsets male people who identify as women and feel excluded. All the other people had to say was could you add us to this hashtag.

In the case of this board banning you it doesn’t actually make any sense. For example, black people aren’t the only people shot by the police, but police brutality falls disproportionately on the black community. We recognize all lives matter as a derail because we know it’s important for black people to specifically name oppression. People can also talk about other groups and make a hashtag for that.

Abortion overwhelmingly affects women. Women’s Rights Matter captures the issue for the majority. People are also free to make “nonbinary abortion access matters” hashtags too presumably, but acknowledging that women are the majority of those affected shouldn’t be a problem.

@FemmeNatal I think you may have missed my meaning somewhat. Or do you mean that you are only interested in feminist issues that affect well off white women? FGM, forced marriage, not of interest to you?

All lives matter right? FFS

No thanks. You campaign for what you want, but you don’t get to tell others that they have to get on your hobby horse too.

And girls of course

Only women need abortions.

They banned you because they could. Others who think the same will now stay silent and your views will harden and become entrenched.

But surely, with a hashtag 'women's rights matter', it was the person who brought in gender identities that put in the divisive thing, not OP?