Nadine Dorries to meet with sporting associations

That’s a bit off, too. They are taking performance enhancing drugs. It’s not like allowing someone to use an inhaler if they have asthma.

Just to note that transmen can already compete in the male category, subject to a Therapeutic Use Exemption.

I'm definitely no fan of Dorries, she can be unnecessarily partisan and divisive - but if the outcome of her meeting with sports leaders is the protection of women's sports I'll be happy. It isn't a requirement that you have to agree with everything that a politician has ever said or done to approve of a decision on a particular issue - or even their motivation in reaching it - provided that the outcome is worthwhile.

If the enforcing of rules that allow only women to participate in women's sports must wait for someone who is without fault to bring it about we could be waiting a v-e-r-y long time for someone with the requisite purity to arrive on the scene.

I think Sharron Davies said women aren’t just smaller men who don’t train and try hard enough.

we are a separate category for well established reasons of inclusion and fairness.

That’s using decades old information to deflect and assumes they telepathically know what a politician really wants?

They don’t have any valid argument against male puberty giving trans women an overwhelming advantage, do they? An advantage that those who have gone through female puberty cannot overcome, however hard they train.

As noted on another thread there is no discrimination against trans women in FINA’s decision - it’s entirely based on male puberty bring the basis for exclusion. as it always has been for womens sport

I’d like to see them tackle swimming - a bigger sports organisation than many and most likely with funds at their call to defend any legal action.

Yes, can people who wish to discuss a totally separate topic start another thread. I am sure I would not support Ms Dorries' stance on fiscal matters or women only shortlists etc,etc. This thread is about the injustice of allowing people ,who are ineligible to do so ,to compete in the female category of sports, to the detriment of all female participants. If people want to argue that the Minister is wrong to take this stance then give us your reasons .

This

sport england issued guidance last year which basically said ‘you can be fair or you can be inclusive of trans ppl playing in their identified gender but you can’t be both’ they also noted that women in sport were scared to speak out on the issue.

FINA have followed the world rugby model - but if lawyers think it can be challenged then bring it on, court cases always bring a ton of sunlight

Well, it's before thousands of women have even had their appointment for their scan, so that's a lot of them finding out the fetus won't survive but being told tough luck, too late, see you at 40 weeks

Then presumably the existing exemptions for post 24 weeks apply?.

No-one seems to be suggesting one.

This silly conspiracy theory that the IK government is about to restrict or ban abortions is an utter irrelevance.

Look over there at that completely different issue to getting men out of women’s sports.

At present.

@NeverDropYourMooncup there isn't a date limit for abnormalities.

Well, it's before thousands of women have even had their appointment for their scan, so that's a lot of them finding out the fetus won't survive but being told tough luck, too late, see you at 40 weeks.

It can take weeks to arrange a later/14+ termination in any case as hospitals don't always have the facilities or staff willing to perform them, then they have to be referred on to another hospital, get seen, get it agreed, get pre-op and ITU bed sorted out if they're higher risk (eg, BMI, anaemic, sickle cell, age, GD...). The longest I knew of was over a month when diagnosis came at 16 weeks. So they'd have had to wait months to birth a child that would die at birth. And that was when Labour was in power, putting shedloads of money into the NHS and the Trusts were almost fully staffed because we hadn't told doctors and nurses to fuck off back to their countries of origin with Brexit and the hostile environment.

Let’s hope she is clear about keeping men out of women’s sports. I think making the men’s category an open one is exciting

She was not restricting access to abortion. She suggested a reduction to 20 weeks , which failed.

*erasure

Well on the reality of womens rights the Tories seem to be the one’s talking sense and more importantly taking action in a situation most of us have sleepwalked into. I’m a floating voter so no pearl clutching from me about whether I’m rejecting the left. I’ll vote and support anyone who sheds sunlight on the reassure of women.

If they agree with us on a particular issue, happy days. But keep your wits about you.

I honestly think a potential leader saying female but meaning men too is the definition of keep your wits about you. But who will you vote for?

The only protected category is the female category and to be eligible you must have female physiology.

Yes.

The male category can easily become an open category and this would also solve the problem of female athletes who identify as men and take testosterone as part of their transition. They are the only athletes banned at the minute from competing in either category. If their testosterone taking is ruled therapeutic, they can then compete in the male/ open category. Neither transwoman nor non binary athletes who don't take testosterone are barred from the male/open category. Female bodied non binary athletes like the footballer Quinn are also eligible to compete in the female category because they are female. Transwoman are not eligible because they have male physiology.

Yes, again. All lovely and inclusive which is what they all say they want.

Get males out of women's sports and sports come up with a solution such as a third event, open, mixed whatever and then there is no reason why that cannot be extrapolated across all spaces and services, everyone catered for, no-one left out, nothing to argue or whinge about, everyone happy.

The only protected category is the female category and to be eligible you must have female physiology. The male category can easily become an open category and this would also solve the problem of female athletes who identify as men and take testosterone as part of their transition. They are the only athletes banned at the minute from competing in either category. If their testosterone taking is ruled therapeutic, they can then compete in the male/ open category. Neither transwoman nor non binary athletes who don't take testosterone are barred from the male/open category. Female bodied non binary athletes likethe footballer Quinn are also eligible to compete in the female category because they are female. Transwoman are not eligible because they have male physiology.

If they agree with us on a particular issue, happy days. But keep your wits about you.

Don't be so patronising, of course we will keep our wits about us we are not stupid we are well aware of how fragile women's rights are all the bloody time.

This was to Ncwinc, who doesn’t want us to think about Nadine Dories defending women’s rights. And women’s sports.

Get males out of women's sports and sports come up with a solution such as a third event, open, mixed whatever and then there is no reason why that cannot be extrapolated across all spaces and services, everyone catered for, no-one left out, nothing to argue or whinge about, everyone happy.