Fck it. Just going to identify as agender as a GC feminist.

On the trans race thing I felt at the time that the reason Rebecca Tuvel's article generated quite so much TRA outrage is that there aren't actually any convincing arguments against the parallels between trans gender and trans race.

There is a difference between mocking a group of people and mocking their beliefs.

It's not nice to mock trans people any more than it's ok to make sexist jokes.

Often it's not nice to mock beliefs either but it's ok to say a set of beliefs doesn't make sense to you. Or it should be.

And if you are being pushed into accepting and acting in accordance with someone else's beliefs against your will then I think it's ok to be a bit nasty about it.

😂 you can tell them they were being horrendously demigenderphobic 🤣

I would also really like to know the answer to this too please. 🙏

That was me being told off!

I rolled my eyes at that and was going to challenge but it's a fast moving thread. There are lots of people who call themselves non binary women. Some of them are actually male. Because these words mean whatever people want them to mean, there is little consistency or coherence.

Thank you for that explanation, GreenWhiteViolet. You've given me food for thought.

You cannot be serious.

Why? How is it different?

(Hmm, didn’t I see someone being told off yesterday on a thread for saying “non-binary female” because you can’t be both? Yet apparently you can be all and more!)

That was me being told off!

I know I'm not the one you asked, but as another autistic woman, I think it's complex. Part of it, at least, is feeling as if you don't fit in and you don’t have anything in common with the people around you. This is a broader problem of adolescence, not just for autistic people, but the idea that the solution might be that you were born the wrong sex and there's a way to fix that must be very appealing to some. Maybe autistic people are more likely to look for these solutions. We're definitely more likely to be drawn into online communities - socialising is easier online, and it's easier to find the people who are like you in some way.

I've said this before on MN, but I do think if I was young now I'd probably have some kind of trans identity. I really struggled with sex stereotypes as a child and young teenager. I'd feel incredibly uncomfortable with statements like 'girls like pink' or 'women are obsessed with shoes' because I'd always have to point out that I wasn't like that, so the statement was wrong! I know now that plenty of women would see these statements as just lazy stereotyping, but as nobody else around me ever spoke up (likely because they thought it was unimportant, a joke, etc) and when I did, I usually got 'well, most women...' in reply, I did think that I was an outlier in rejecting gender roles. Instead I was probably an outlier in not being able to let incorrect statements go unchallenged when it might be socially awkward to object to them!

The difference was that when I got to the age where I looked online for likeminded people, I found feminist blogs, not genderists telling me that my discomfort might mean I wasn't a woman.

Dietcoke/cokezero

Xerxes?

You cannot be serious.

Please articulate how you see it as different.

I wonder what would have happened if professionals had questioned Keira Bell and Tulip regarding their pronouns instead of respecting/affirming them?

Hillrunning · Yesterday 17:53
A quick Internet search tells me I am gener free. I like this. If I ever need to declare it, I'll say I'm a gender free woman. Married to a gender free man. Can I join the club now that I'm special enough?

What pronoun goes with gender free?

It's such a pity humans are involved, Pomegranate. I realise that's an exceptionally daft thing to say (but hey, if there's ever a thread to personify daft, it's this one) but the need for some to dominate is clearly deep in our psyche. Then again, it's in every living creature so why would humans be different? It used to be about passing your genes on, this dominance thing. Now we're sterilising our young instead. It's rather gobsmacking when you consider it.

“Doxigender is a gender that's mostly binary male, partially binary female, and a little nonbinary.”

(Hmm, didn’t I see someone being told off yesterday on a thread for saying “non-binary female” because you can’t be both? Yet apparently you can be all and more!)

“Knifegender: this gender is related to knives! it can feel sharp, dangerous and metallic. this gender can be related to a specific type of knife or be related knives in general.”

This doesn’t sound good. Do I have to put up with a knifegender teenager in the house and not hide all of the cutting implements?

“Junic is neutral and/or void leaning gender that is related to warrior monarchs. It feels bold, confident, and commanding with a sense of leadership. Think of a ruler leading their troops into battle and to victory. Its feminine counterpart is Boudican and its masculine counterpart is Leonic.”

I gotta respect Felix as a Leonic ? What about xir star sign, do I have to “respect” that as well, or not? Leonic but not Leo?

Do I get to go about making up absolute nonsense and getting it “respected” by calling it a gender, or (as for the OP calling herself agender) is that not allowed? Why not? Is it because I’m a 45 year old woman or because you think I don’t believe in it?

What if Felix doesn’t believe xie’s a cat at all and admits xie is just doing it to wind me up, do I still have to “respect” xir catgender pronouns then? 🤷‍♀️

Why not? Come on, if it’s not reasonable you can presumably explain why, can’t you?

Do you even have a reason for this view, or is it an article of faith?

Why is it different?

You are welcome @Belovedfool I am interested in religious stories, how religions develop and spread, how they are connected to each other, what common themes emerge across different religions and what that tells us about what we humans needs from them, how and why they originally catch on, then how they can be appropriated and used for particular agendas etc etc

If an adult male or female wishes to identify as trans, I couldn’t care less. I will respect their pronouns etc etc. However, that is not to say I am going to pander to someone’s ideology if I disagree with it.

A trans woman sees herself as a woman, that’s all good, they can ID however they like, but in my eyes they are a trans woman. I do not believe that someone can change sex. A woman cannot have a penis, a trans woman can.

However, I absolutely do not agree with the whole Mermaids/Stonewall attitude of positive affirmation. This is doing untold damage to children and how they see themselves. The push, for young girls in particular, to take cross-sex drugs and undergo surgery is an absolute travesty. It has not gone unnoticed that young trans girls are not pushed to surgery in the same way trans boys are.

The whole attitude of the TRA is both frighteningly misogynistic and homophobic. They are very vocal about outlawing conversion therapy for the trans community but are they not guilty of gay conversion by leading young people to think they are trans when in fact they might be gay.

The gender stereotyping is laughable, oh your a boy and don’t like sports, you must be trans. If you’re a girl and you don’t like playing with dolls and want short hair, you must be trans.

Those who have a medical diagnosis of BDD are being let down by both Stonewall and Mermaids. Everyone is welcome to their Trans party, male heterosexual cross-dressers, fetishists, men with AGP. In my eyes these are the men who are attacking women with threats of rape, the ones who insist on invading women’s spaces with a beard and a pair of heels.

These men, who can now very conveniently ID as women to belittle and denigrate women, or to get access into women’s spaces such as prisons, these people, I do not consider trans, not in the slightest.

You cannot be serious.

Why? Why is being trans racial any different to any other sort of trans?

It looks exactly the same. If anything it’s more reasonable, as race is such a wooly concept whereas sex is a clear immutable binary.

So if Felix identifies as a Gnostic or a flat earther or a Korean pop star am I obliged to go along with it as well, it is it only when gender gets invoked that I have to start installing cat flaps with a straight face?

I think thats a very different argument.

Why?

I think thats a very different argument.

Why?

How is claiming to be the opposite sex to what you are any different to claiming to be a different race from what you are?

I think thats a very different argument.

Yes you do, because you are blinkered by gender identity ideology. I can't see why it would be in any way different or less valid, but please enlighten me.