Fck it. Just going to identify as agender as a GC feminist.

Place, I think it would be good for you to ignore anything that makes you bristle. Your first post this morning is great. You clearly feel the same as a lot of people here, but obviously the humour thing didn't work for you and that's fine, you've explained. You actually succeeded in stopping it by completely derailing the thread, so mission accomplished, I'd say.

Btw folks I'm going to work.
Just in case I come back to 36 pages of oh place must have run away.

This is exactly what I mean about mocking people. Ic you want to sit and take the piss then I suppose whatever floats your boat, but dont pretend you actually want to be part of the community

Did you though? Did you really check over night?

I really cant stand this implication that I must have run off because I'm scared of what some random folk on Mn asked me. I was in bed! I have a life beyond the forum.

I dont believe anyone should access womens spaces. Nor do I believe that sports should be mixed, or prisons.

I apologise for my part in what became utterly ridiculous last night. We would probably agree on certain things in person. I just dont like the outright mockery or denial, which I dont honestly think is the most outrageous views to have.

Thanks @nepeta.
I was thinking about this last night and came to the conclusion that it’s reason 3.
Transracialism (is that a word?) is beyond the pale because depending on who moved from which race would either be seen as the historical oppressor moving into the oppressed class or the oppressed trying to identify out of their oppression and we all know how that goes- no one actually believes you.

In transgenderism the same is true except that the most oppressed narrative has persuaded people to believe that natal women are the oppressors of those who identify as women. How many times have we been told we’re wrong to ‘police’ the category of who gets to be a woman? It’s DARVO writ large across half the world’s population.

As for transmen, natal men largely don’t really care because again, they know who oppressed whom and see no threat.

@ShinyRainbow

Strictly a non-binary woman, here.

Thanks nepeta, 💐I checked throughout the night to see if place had come back to answer.
I think reasons 1 and 2 could be applied to race and sex. Reason 3 I haven’t heard before and sounds plausible. I can perfectly understand why transracialism is problematic, I just can’t see why opting into an oppressed sex class by adopting those stereotypes isn’t as frowned upon. The stronger “no!” works as an explanation, however it unfortunately doesn’t alleviate that feeling of it being harmful to women as a result.

Yup. Isn’t it funny though the minute I said I knew 3 letters that place knew exactly what I was apparently implying. I wasn’t, but that’s where her mind jumped.

Not so much "the love that dare not speak its name" but more "the love whose name we dare not speak"?

On transracialism: I have looked for explanations for why nobody is allowed to be transrace while transgender is perfectly fine for all. I haven't seen very many, and can only recall two where the answer to someone asking about this wasn't just accusations of transphobia:

The first one was that sex is a real biological concept while race does not exist as a biological concept. Somehow that means the first one is more permeable than the second? In any case, I have read this as one explanation.

The second one was that because of epigenetic inheritance, people of colour have inherited the pain of the brutal treatment of their ancestors in the hands of white slaveowners and/or colonisers, and it is ethically wrong of anyone who is white to transition into the racial group other white people mistreated.

This one might not work as we could equally well speculate that epigenetic inheritance of such pain might be also shared by female people from their mistreated foremothers. But I believe that the real argument here is ethical, i.e., that transitioning into an oppressed race class is morally and ethically wrong and so is not allowed. I'm not sure how transitioning into the more oppressed sex might not also share some of those concerns.

I like a different answer I have read better, and that is that all or almost all people of colour said clearly and strongly NO when they spotted attempts of transracialism.

Women, as a class, however, did not do the same and perhaps would not have been obeyed in any case, because the transgender activism had already created the background for arguing that women, as a class, are privileged when compared to transgender women.

What does "considering yourself strictly a man or a woman" mean? I have difficulty understanding how an abstract gender identity might feel.

After much introspection I am almost entirely certain that I don't have one, but I consider myself a woman because my sex is female and because I am an adult human being.

This appears not to be one of the boxes we can tick in the gender identity system which seems to leave my gender invalidated and erased.

Non-binary just means you don't consider yourself to be strictly a man or a woman.

Good grief, what the hell happened here?!?! Left it on page one and come back to see one person telling us all off? For daring to discuss something? For trying to find a suitable gender so we can become as one with the trans community ?

goes to sit in the naughty corner to cry and wonder why that community doesn't want to be inclusive enough to want her

Came back to see what @placewherewebelong had to say about the transrace issue as I've never seen any logical answer to that question - or indeed any answer. Sadly no further information to clarify exactly what the difference is.

I agree Candy, you have.

No, you’re the funny one, pretending that you had a coherent argument, then just acting like a child and petulantly saying that you won’t share it. You know, I know, and everyone else knows that if you really did have an explanation you’d have given it by now.

@placewherewebelong - I'm disappointed you haven't engaged. I've been more than fair.

Billy Connolly frequently made jokes at the expense of the Catholic Church, the beliefs of said Church and in particular the priests of said church and their penchant for abusing young choir boys. Presumably, place thinks that's terribly wrong as it upsets and is taking the piss out of those who follow and adhere to that faith.

Him shedding sunlight onto those practices and the beliefs surrounding them through the humour in his act did a hell of a lot of good in getting the issue into the mainstream and to people's attention.

If Gender Ideology and its proponents can't cope with the sunlight being poured in, can't explain, can't argue coherently for the ideology, or can't justify it that is their problem and shows just how shaky the foundations of it are.

No, they can't/won't explain it like everything else to do with Gender Ideology.

Exactly @vest but pointing out this ideology is dangerous Is apparently spiteful and mean. Amd @placewherewebelong really needs to get her terminology right. It’s folx if you want to be truly inclusive.

Ah, there we go - the folks another trans buzz word.

Of course ripping the piss out of a dangerous and bonkers ideology that says we must validate and believe an adult male person that says they are a 6 year old girl that likes being shagged by their 'stepfather' is ripping the piss out of vulnerable people. The only vulnerable people in that particular horrendous shit show are the ones who have the misfortune to be anywhere near said adult male six year old 'girl'. And before you say that's just some outlier random on the internet, no, they are not the person in question was deemed appropriate enough to give evidence on trans issues before the Canadian Parliament in their chosen identity and be listened to. Vulnerable, oppressed - do me a favour.

Are you under the impression that you are a) in any way funny or b) someone has to explain themselves to you whilst you sit in judgement?

but @placewherewebelong you told us we were a hilarious gang so even you find us funny obviously. On another serious note, this does show that the whole concept of self ID, that we have to accept people are who they say they are is flawed and dangerous to woman and girls. We are supposed to accept that a man can become a woman just by saying so, but at what point does he get to access women’s spaces? From the moment he says the words?

Oh well, maybe one day someone will come up with an actual reason

Don't hold your breath.

I'm not, but the folks the gang of oh so hilarious bullies are ripping it out Of are

@placewherewebelong so are you saying I cannot self ID as a particular gender? Why? How do you know my, or anyone’s gender? You said we had to believe people when they stated their gender so why am I different?