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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Who would be able to review research design from a GC perspective?

32 replies

SoManyQuestionsHere · 24/06/2022 19:52

Basically, exactly as stated in the title:

Anyone willing to give me a (very anonymous, can handle via DM on here) review on research design re. "I&D".

I am looking to try and ...

A) distinguish between gender identity and bio sex, and ...
B) not raise any unnecessary red flags

Help much appreciated!

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GingerPCatt · 27/06/2022 20:10

One of the points that I have made repeatedly is that sex and gender are different. In theory everyone should be able to agree on that.

Having ‘sex’ as a clear category also makes any comparison or meta analysis possible. I think that was one of the main points that Nature publishing made.

Im still battling this but fortunately one of the big guns is on my side. Not sure if he’s GC but as a scientist, the accuracy of data is very important to him. And being able to publish!

ChateauMargaux · 27/06/2022 19:18

If this is your aim.. you need to make dam sure that your data cannot be misinterpreted in the future if and when males identify as female and then start demanding disproportionate presence and share of resources.

SoManyQuestionsHere · 27/06/2022 18:56

@GingerPCatt, do not apologise! The info dump is quite spectacularly helpful for my purposes!

For the sake of clarity: again, the goal is to be able to demonstrate, quantitatively, what we all actually know already: that there is a brutally obvious inversely linear correlation between "being female" and "rank". In other words: the only woman in leadership in this part of the organisation is ... yours truly!

I've been promised funds for a women's leadership program - but only if I can quantify the issue of us having zero diversity.

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GingerPCatt · 25/06/2022 10:40

I've been fighting a similar battle to get demographic questions on a large public survey changed to ask about sex as well as gender identity. Some of the articles below include info on how to ask about gender identity and what options to include.

If it's something that might be published, you can argue that Nature Portfolio journals recommend authors to follow the ‘Sex and Gender Equity in Research – SAGER – guidelines’ - ease.org.uk/communities/gender-policy-committee/the-sager-guidelines/.

As a general principle, the SAGER guidelines recommend careful use of the words sex and gender in order to avoid confusing both terms. The use of common definitions will improve the ability to conduct meta-analyses of published and archived data. The term sex should be used as a classification of male or female based on biological distinction to the extent that this is possible to confirm. The first principle is that: Authors should use the terms sex and gender carefully in order to avoid confusing both terms.

You can also argue that in qualitative research involving gender minority populations, participants preferred a two-step question approach which asked for sex and gender identity.

What Sexual and Gender Minority People Want Researchers to Know About Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity Questions: A Qualitative Study - link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-020-01810-y

GENDERED INNOVATIONS 2: How Inclusive Analysis Contributes to Research and Innovation - ec.europa.eu/info/sites/default/files/research_and_innovation/strategy_on_research_and_innovation/documents/ki0320108enn_final.pdf - see page 192

Why sex and gender matter in implementation research - www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5084413/

A Two-Question Method for Assessing Gender Categories in the Social and Medical Sciences - doi.org/10.1080/00224499.2012.690110

Accounting for sex and gender makes for better science - www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-03459-y

An analysis of neuroscience and psychiatry papers published from 2009 and 2019 outlines opportunities for increasing discovery of sex differences - www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9018784/

Transgender-inclusive measures of sex/gender for population surveys: Mixed-methods evaluation and recommendations - journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0178043#abstract0

The Utility of the Two-Step Gender Measure Within Trans and Cis Populations - link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13178-016-0220-6#Sec8

Sorry for the info dump, but I'm a researcher and I've been trying to argue the case with some higher ups who have been Stonewalled. I've got a few higher ups on my side, but it's still an on-going battle.

AlisonDonut · 25/06/2022 09:15

If it was equality monitoring, then:

You don’t have to track how many job applications you receive from different groups of people, or the characteristics of the people working for you.

From www.gov.uk/employers-responsibilities-equality-monitoring

So again it comes back to why is it being asked. If it just goes into a spreadsheet and a file then it is pointless. So ask meaningful questions and you might get meaningful answers.

ChateauMargaux · 25/06/2022 09:03

If the survey is anomonous you risk GC people deleting and moving on due to believing that the organisation is looking for a bix ticking exercise that does not consider that gender is imposed on women who are not and will not be given an effective voice.

What is your birth sex?
Female
Male

Do you have a gender reassigment certificate? Yes / No

Do you identify with a specifoc gender?
Yes / No

If yes.. is that gender
Male
Female
Other - specify if you would so wish
See note 2 below (if you want to expand or provide options... bearing in mind that you get what you ask for.. if you mention cis.. people may select that, even if they do not actively buy into gender ideology.

Do you have any disabilities as defined by the Equality Act (see note 1 below)

You could also ask a question about each of the other Equality Act categories...

JacquelinePot · 25/06/2022 09:00

If the purpose is equality monitoring you would be on firm ground using language from the equality act.

Explain why you need the info, bit also that it's optional and anonymous.

Sex (equality act wording for clarity) registered on you birth cert when you were born. None of this ID as or assigned nonsense.
Options: female, male, prefer not to say

And then, does the ptotected characteristic of gender reassignment apply to you? Gender reassignment is xyz
Options: y, n, prefer not to say

AlisonDonut · 25/06/2022 08:48

SoManyQuestionsHere · 24/06/2022 22:41

Stated goal is, literally, to figure out how well - or not so - we are doing on inclusion and diversity.

And, for the record: I, technically, already know that it is "the gay guy, that one woman who is senior in terms of her role but whose formal rank and hence pay do that situation no justice, the colleague who stutters, and myself in my function as 'the saving grace for all of our gender stats, because my existence, single handedly, knocks up the median rank of women, statistically speaking, up by one whole paygrade' in terms of us being only bad, not utterly abysmal".

I have every business reason to collect data - especially since it's anonymously - not worried about GDPR at all.

Actual goal is: to have statistical data to get funding to push my "women in leadership" program.

Im asking because people automatically go to the standard questions but actually what you need to know is if people consider themselves to be from under-represented groups in your industry and whether they would be interested in a 'woman in leadership programme'. You don't even need to ask what they identify as or what sex they are.

You could ask

'Do you consider yourself to be from an under-represented group in this industry' and if yes, give them free text to explain why.

Also you could ask 'if you are female, do you think there is a need for Women in Leadership programme and if yes would you be interested in attending the course'. And give them free text for any additional comments about this idea.

If you do a women in leadership course, are you cutting out other people who may not be in leadership - so should it be 'Do you think there is a need for a Leadership course for under-represented groups' and again, give them free text if yes.

If you remove the sex/gender question entirely then you aren't going to get any complaints or pushback and it leaves it up to everyone to give their own interpretation on Diversity. You know how many men and women you employ so what does that actually achieve?

We all [well, not me I'm now retired] need to move away from this tick box approach to life - if it is really about inclusion and development. It might just surprise you.

SoManyQuestionsHere · 24/06/2022 23:14

@donquixotedelamancha, ... thanks! Point taken. Agreed. Will definitely adapt to something along the lines of.

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donquixotedelamancha · 24/06/2022 23:05

Cannot afford to have whole workforce spend several days on reading through possible gender ID options on an internal survey.

They won't. They will all tick 'none'. At which point you have hard evidence that most of your workforce don't have a gender identity.

I think it's worth it to get that evidence for future discussions. Put the Gender question first if you like and leave out a few options- that softens it a bit. e.g.

My Gender Identity is:

Cis Man
Cis Woman
Non-Binary
Trans Man
Trans Woman
Other
None
Prefer not to say

You are still getting very clear data on who is trans, who is cis and who doesn't follow that religion at all.

SoManyQuestionsHere · 24/06/2022 23:03

@Yarnasaurus, I absolutely will not, promised!

I want to get this as close to the brink of "HR will demand I make changes" that I can without actually crossing that line. I also want data that will allow me to make some meaningful statements about what employees care about. And I want to give them some sort of a meaningful vehicle of making their priorities clear on the sex <> gender ID question. If they so please, that is.

Hence the over-engineered approach to phrasing technically simple questions.

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SoManyQuestionsHere · 24/06/2022 22:50

@donquixotedelamancha, 😂

Would love to include all of these!

Unfortunately, next to my I&D stuff, I also have some "cold, hard cash" financial targets to hit. Cannot afford to have whole workforce spend several days on reading through possible gender ID options on an internal survey.

But it'd admittedly be very fun if I had the budget!

Love it!

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SoManyQuestionsHere · 24/06/2022 22:44

Also: "birth sex before Id; remove options from former": good idea! Noted & will implement!

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SoManyQuestionsHere · 24/06/2022 22:41

Stated goal is, literally, to figure out how well - or not so - we are doing on inclusion and diversity.

And, for the record: I, technically, already know that it is "the gay guy, that one woman who is senior in terms of her role but whose formal rank and hence pay do that situation no justice, the colleague who stutters, and myself in my function as 'the saving grace for all of our gender stats, because my existence, single handedly, knocks up the median rank of women, statistically speaking, up by one whole paygrade' in terms of us being only bad, not utterly abysmal".

I have every business reason to collect data - especially since it's anonymously - not worried about GDPR at all.

Actual goal is: to have statistical data to get funding to push my "women in leadership" program.

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Yarnasaurus · 24/06/2022 22:32

If I had to, I would just do an optional free text box with a character limit for people who want to record their 'gender identity'.

Just don't do the nonsensical question that asks "is your gender identity different to the sex you were assigned at birth?" because that is a very silly question.

donquixotedelamancha · 24/06/2022 22:29

P.S. I think your approach is very clever OP and your wording is fine as is, I just think you can push it a little further without anyone having any room to complain.

donquixotedelamancha · 24/06/2022 22:27

Amusingly, I made a couple of the above choices up but a quick google suggests they are 'real'.

donquixotedelamancha · 24/06/2022 22:25

"I don't have a gender identity" I arguably won't get away with. "N/A" I will.

Make sex the first question. I'd lose the 'other' option from the sex question because it's not possible (very, very rarely it's left blank to be completed later but there is no third sex). For your third question...

My Gender Identity is:

Agender

Cis Man

Cis Woman

Genderqueer

Neutrois

Non-Binary

Novigender

Omnigender

Pan Gender

Trans Man

Trans Woman

Two Spirit

Prefer not to say

None

This looks very inclusive to the idiots but makes it very clear what you are actually asking and gives people the choice to opt out.

AlisonDonut · 24/06/2022 22:23

Yes you need to work out what it is you are trying to find out and why before you ask anything.

Threadbaretoe · 24/06/2022 22:21

Generally, you need to think about GDPR and having a rationale for collecting data. Sex is a protected characteristic so you may be collecting that data for equal opps monitoring purposes. I think the Cass Review has struck a good compromise position by referring to 'sex recorded at birth'.

Gender identity isn't a protected characteristic and I'm not sure why you would need data on this. Gender reassignment is a PC and so you might want to find out if people consider the category 'gender reassignment' applying to them. I am not sure why you would need to know the name of their gender identity.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/06/2022 22:18

A million thanks!

FYI: A lot of us are out there, trying hard, without risking the jobs that our livelihoods depend on!

Well done! Flowers

AlisonDonut · 24/06/2022 22:13

What are you trying to find out?

titchy · 24/06/2022 22:04

In that case ask the birth sex question first. Then the 'I identify as ' question.

And please make sure such characteristics are kept private.

aweegc · 24/06/2022 21:53

I'm following here OP as I have to design a research project for my degree at woke central psychology department next year. I'm not missing out sex but I need to get it okayed too.

I have thought to do it on something like the experience of menopause or pregnancy to avoid even mentioning sex or gender, but not sure I'll be allowed. So I'll be following here!

SoManyQuestionsHere · 24/06/2022 21:42

@Ereshkigalangcleg, thanks, very helpful. Also, see above, I work at "corporate wokeism central".

"I don't have a gender identity" I arguably won't get away with. "N/A" I will.

"N/A" it is!

A million thanks!

FYI: A lot of us are out there, trying hard, without risking the jobs that our livelihoods depend on!

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