Physical Vs psychological difference between the sexes

431 replies

Bumpitybumper · 24/06/2022 13:27

So Mumsnet seems a very gender critical place when it comes to physical sex based differences. The majority don't support men competing in the female category in sporting competitions or men being allowed in single sex wards or changing rooms. The reason being men and women are so fundamentally biologically different that an ideology can't just erase these difference.

However I have noticed that the majority do not support the assertion that male and females may be psychologically different and as a class have different inclinations, behaviour and desires. Many reject the idea that girls may be drawn to different toys, subjects or types of play than boys. They reject the idea that women may naturally have predisposition as a class towards certain occupations and hobbies. They simply cannot accept that women have different desires when it comes to having children and also raising them and the role they play in providing care.

I feel like the insistence that men and women want the same things and behave in the same way is because traditional feminine occupations and interests have been so undermined, undervalued and used to repress us in a patriarchal society. Rather than explore the idea of what women have a natural biological propensity towards and seeking equal value for these things, it is easier to suggest our feminine preferences are all a result of socialisation and conditioning and actually our underlying psychology is the same as men's. This seems very dangerous to me and almost playing into the patriarchy's hands.

Am I alone is seeing this distinction in how physical and psychological differences between the sexes are viewed?

OP posts:

Original poster

Bumpitybumper · 24/06/2022 13:55

puffyisgood · 24/06/2022 13:35

There are indeed a number of "psychological differences". But they're very widely exaggerated, reinforced, and exploited by society in a myriad of usually unhelpful ways.

Thanks.

Whilst I agree that psychological differences have been historically exploited, I'm not sure that I agree that they have been exaggerated as there is still so much debate about the extent of these differences and the influence of biology Vs socialisation.

It's hard in a patriarchal world that values STEM over the arts or banking over caring to suggest that women might be drawn to things that are currently valued less highly. It seems to strike at the heart of equality. The thing is though, all these things have been given a value by men who will naturally value their own occupations, interest and desires more highly. If we as women understand our own value system (that may well differ from a man's) then we can fight for real equality that fits our biology properly.

OP posts:

LaughingPriest · 24/06/2022 13:52

Rather than explore the idea of what women have a natural biological propensity towards and seeking equal value for these things, it is easier to suggest our feminine preferences are all a result of socialisation and conditioning and actually our underlying psychology is the same as men's. This seems very dangerous to me and almost playing into the patriarchy's hands.

I think you'd have to give specific examples and how you would measure these, and also how you would untangle the social input of gender (by which i mean 'girls are like THIS and boys are like THAT') - these messages are everywhere even towards babies and toddlers.

I'd be more than happy to accept that a sex is associated with with a psychological characteristic if it could be shown that the association had a strong predictive power - i.e. if (say) ~95% of females displayed it and ~95% of males did not. Otherwise it's so broad as to be essentially meaningless.

By 'feminine' do you mean in a medical way (i.e. pertaining to female people) or a social/cultural way (what we might call 'femininity' or 'girly' stuff - which obviously varies hugely between cultures)?

RoseslnTheHospital · 24/06/2022 13:51

Women need consideration for the fact that, due to their biology, they are the ones who bear the physical impact of creating the next generations. That has an impact on their lives, from careers, to health, wellbeing and so on. Women also as a result of being the ones that create and birth offspring are very often likely to want to take care of their very young children themselves, due to other physical/physiological factors such as breastfeeding. Women may be more likely to want to care for others, and caring for others should be valued by society whoever does it. Feminists are not the ones who are dismissive of caring roles.

Why do you think that feminists don't want traditionally feminine activities/occupations to be valued? My experience is that they absolutely do. What they don't want is women to be limited to those, as if all women are interested in the same things, have the same preferences, the same aptitudes or abilities....

achillestoes · 24/06/2022 13:46

‘Rather than explore the idea of what women have a natural biological propensity towards and seeking equal value for these things...’

Maybe slow down a bit. What are these ‘things’?

HouseOfGoldandBones · 24/06/2022 13:44

I find most people rely on evidence.

There is no evidence to suggest there are psychological reasons that women choose to be paid 9% less than men, for example.

I'd have a look, if I were you, to see if there's any evidence that we live in a patriarchal society & women are viewed as less than men, which would account for this.

puffyisgood · 24/06/2022 13:35

There are indeed a number of "psychological differences". But they're very widely exaggerated, reinforced, and exploited by society in a myriad of usually unhelpful ways.

Thanks.

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