What you all said was coming

read that. He worked for the Civil Service, had treatment through NHS gender clinics, took all information and encouragement from the internet. complete capture mode.

History of mental health issues, gay.

took up the "party" line that being trans and going down the transition route was the only way to be happy and complete

It seems likely that he had affirmation treatment throughout and just kept on going down this trans path to happiness with no real pushback from anyone. Clearly some doubts. Like many posters, I sort of think, you must have realised what transition meant but then I believe you can't change your biological sex, so I can't even get close to this "transition means changing your sex" thinking. One of the leaflets referred to in an earlier post talked about gender realignment surgery and said, more or less, it can leave you infertile. No, it WILL leave you infertile.

the modus of operation of the NHS and various public health bodies now has a lot to answer for - in their quest to follow Stonewall and all they preach, they have abandoned principles of do no harm and the overall health of the patient, much as Hilary Cass said in her interim report on GIDS

www.dailymail.co.uk/mailonsunday/index.html

Thanks for that Bore, looks like it's the top story.

Tullip's latest Twitter thread
twitter.com/TullipR/status/1540760967675617280?s=20&t=Wk0V-gLgFX1rvdz2SBMsVw

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10953157/Man-suing-NHS-trans-surgery-regrets-bravely-waived-anonymity-share-ordeal.html

Unfortunately, they appear to have left up the comments from the previous article

My observation is that the NHS have, and in my current knowledge still do, as part of their regular talking therapies, spend large parts of that therapy disabusing patients that there is any kind of ‘magical fix’.

In all cases bar gender dysphoria

In NHS therapeutic settings, and indeed in every therapeutic setting, that I have been privy to, the idea of a magical, instant, or all encompassing ‘fix’ is and has been roundly discredited to patients.

I won’t be dming anyone with my theory on why this is so markedly different to the approach taken for gender dysphoria.

It’s enough that that difference exists - it shouldn’t exist - and the onus is on those facilitating/encouraging/promoting that schism to explain themselves, not me.

@Penguintears here's part of a documentary which includes one of these quacks surgeons

Trans-Actions: An Exploration of Gender Dysphoria

vimeo.com/285555219

I recall a similar documentary titled 'The Boys from Brazil' about TW prostitutes in Brazil, think that was the BBC too. One thing I remember is the use of industrial grade silicone, as it was cheap, to achieve the 'correct womanly shaped thigh', of course this was causing horrendous health issues and inevitably deaths.

I would be interested to hear it too.

I'd like to hear your theory. Would you PM it to me, please?

OT: How could you be a man and work as a prostitute pretending to be a woman? Of course men found out!

I would assume that not all purchased sexual activity is penetrative of the vagina rather than mouth or other orifices.

How could you be a man and work as a prostitute pretending to be a woman? Of course men found out!

That's the million dollar question. What does it mean to live 'as' a woman, without resorting to stereotypes?

In my view, nothing. There are 3.5 billion women on the planet and the only thing we all have in common is belonging to the same sex class.

That's a really interesting post, @ASmallCat. One tentative explanation I have for why all common sense and research has been chucked out of the window in this one area is that policymakers have swallowed wholesale the assertion from Stonewall et al that LGBT is just an extension of gay rights, which almost everyone now accepts are now not something requiring medical or psychological treatment. The fact that the T part is actually a totally different thing seems not to have sunk in. And once policy changes HCPs have to go along with it for the sake of their careers and their finances.

I don’t know enough about this young man to comment on his case specifically.

Having been part of group therapy however I can speak to how every single one of us in therapy had to some degree (& most to a large degree) a wish for a ‘magical fix’. Even though we all had differing experiences of trauma, differing family support etc this one thing we all had in common - so acutely distressed we desperately wanted something, anything, that would make us ‘better/normal/less in pain’ etc

Something instant - an epiphany from therapy, a medication that would solve our distress, an understanding from family, justice from courts, an acceptance of responsibility from those that harmed us, a label even to point to that would help us understand ourselves or be understood by others.

A significant number of sessions, and parts of many other sessions, were based solely on trying to get us to understand that there is no magical fix.

That we will be working on ourselves, and working on our distress to get it down to a level that is as manageable as we possibly can, for many months/years or perhaps even for the rest of our lives.

Many illnesses, including mental distress, cannot be ‘cured’ but only managed as best we can.

If children, young adults, or even older adults, are being sold a ‘magic fix’ then I can absolutely understand how someone in acute distress would leap on it.

And then be even more distressed when the magic fix leaves them with the original distress and additional severe problems on top.

It is heart-breaking and why I have sympathy with anyone misled into believing transition is a cure for what may well be multiple psychological issues, instead of ongoing therapy and support to best manage those issues in a way that allows us to live as reasonably well as possible.

And my group therapy was NHS - they are fully aware that patients with severe mental distress are nearly always absolutely desperate for a magic fix.*

My DS espouses never consider malice before incompetence.

Personally I cannot for the life of me see how so many ‘professionals’ and professional bodies who knew full well previously and know full well in other areas to this day can have an ‘incompetent’ block on this specific area at this specific time.

I won’t post my own personal theory as it is definitely likely to be seen as inflammatory. It is also the only logical reason I can see for the current situation, and as silencing victims is part and parcel of it, it’s beyond ironic that I can’t post it.

No, that is not what I meant by research. I was talking about research into the surgical procedure itself and the physical after-effects. Something that is relatively easy to do in our time.

I was not talking about investigating ones own dysphoria. Clearly a person fully signed up to such a philosophy isn't going to be inclined to seek alternative points of view and probably can't, even if some part of them wanted to.

But looking at the bare facts of a procedure can be done. And again, no one simply walks into a serious and complicated surgery in the NHS. There is consultation beforehand. Unless this person was not told how complicated it would be or appraised of the potential downsides, in which case that's another point.

But this is moot as overall I agree there is an argument that the NHS should not be doing these procedures in the first place.

I have heard from staff who worked on that service that even after therapy etc, there was regret and complications. It wasn’t uncommon at all.

Without data collection, we're nowhere in being able to conduct an evidence-based evaluation.

That's the million dollar question. What does it mean to live 'as' a woman, without resorting to stereotypes?

I would love to hear the perspective of the surgeons who carry out these surgeries. I had a mastectomy for breast cancer and it was touch and go whether they should remove my nipple entirely because the cancer was very close under the nipple. My (female) surgeon spent ages trying to figure out if she could keep the nipple intact and it was me who said to remove it because for me it was more important to make sure the cancer didn't return than to have a nipple. The surgeon was genuinely sad about the fact that I would lose my nipple and that was despite the fact that it was potentially life saving. I cannot imagine that surgeon agreeing to remove someone's healthy tissue. Who are the surgeons that are doing this? If they're in the NHS do they get a choice not to carry out these surgeries? Surely it goes against the hypocritical oath.

Back in the early 70s there was a teenager who lived in my road. I think everyone thought he was gay and it wasn't an issue. It turned out he wanted to be a transwoman and there was no help, or maybe very little help, on the NHS so he started working as a prostitute to make the money for his op. He was slightly built and very quiet, he got beaten up more than once and was clearly in danger. He was working as a female prostitute and inevitably depending on the service being paid for sometimes men found out he wasn't female and then he got a worse beating.

He eventually married and I think he had all the surgery. I moved away but I hope his story worked out OK as I think his life was pretty tragic.

Here is what I don't get.

Tulip was an adult who was "living as a woman" what does that actually mean? Wearing lippy and a dress?

I couldn't tell you when I last had a dress on but my lippy was last out for mothers day.

I think if it entirely fell on private we'd have a massive cohort if " half done-ers"

People unable to work or live after being unable to afford repairs and revisions . Thay wouod end up falling to the nhs and as much could end up being an emergency , causing even longer waits for everyone else.

It also removes any incentive to be any good..if your patient has no choice but to come back to you, the only surgeon in the area who does it, why bother doing a good job, you get the money when Gary come back.you can stuff it up and string it out all you want.

It Simply should just not be done. By anyone.

If sex reassignment surgery fell entirely on private practices, would there be more in the long term because the NHS waiting times have the effect of giving people time to change their minds?

A bit like the waiting list for gender clinics and clinicians having the effect of allowing teens to naturally desist?

Or would people not be able to afford private? There's only so many crowdfunders / money lending people can do?

Obviously I can't be sure, but one wonders how many of the downsides patients are actually exposed to, bearing in mind the fact that Caspian's important research into regret is still being prevented.

The NHS are usually pretty hot on the precautionary principle, when a friend of mine had a knee replacement recently her surgeon listed the disadvantages so comprehensively, and in such detail, he nearly put her off altogether, even though she was in agony.

You could just as easily say that if people suffering from anorexia were capable of doing research, they'd understand that their condition is all in their mind, they are dangerously underweight and if they don't start eating properly they will die.

Stephanie from TT speaking out:

”Last night, Stephanie Davies-Arai, founder of Transgender Trend, a group advising parents of trans children and young people, said: ‘This young man’s compensation battle shines a light on the NHS adult gender identity clinics where older teens and young people are getting treatment, and referral for surgery, with little exploration into underlying mental or social issues pushing them towards wanting to change gender.
‘We want an independent inquiry into the work of the clinics where young patients are allowed, by law, to make their own decisions on life-altering medical procedures that they may later regret.’”

I hope Tullip’s case helps highlight the need for a move away from the current model.

www.mailplus.co.uk/edition/news/society/195278/we-need-an-urgent-gender-op-inquiry-say-campaigners