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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What you all said was coming

533 replies

Pippinbird · 23/06/2022 22:24

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10947483/Anguish-young-man-sex-organs-removed-NHS-regretted-day-SUES-NHS

OP posts:
Louise0701 · 24/06/2022 06:41

@McDuffy well he has to live the way he decided he wanted to live when he consented to surgery….

Louise0701 · 24/06/2022 06:40

So he didn’t realise consenting to an operation removing his male sexual organs would leave him castrated? Really? What a load of shit. Now decided to sue the NHS surprise surprise. What a joke.

Datun · 24/06/2022 06:37

Having surgery to look like the opposite sex, if done at all, should always have been an absolute last resort for a tiny number of people.

Given that they have just proven that they are absolutely no judge as to who should have the surgery, and who absolutely shouldn't, I think there's a case to be had that it shouldn't be performed at all. Or at least not on the NHS.

MagpiePi · 24/06/2022 06:34

I think that the NHS is partially complicit in providing this kind of surgery, but I doubt he would not have been told that there were possibly negative outcomes?
He is an adult and if he was following a convincing 'script' in order to obtain surgery, then why would the NHS not believe he was sincere and understood the risks?

TheCurrywurstPrion · 24/06/2022 06:34

”Surely he had enough brain cells to realise that amputation of penis and testicles {Or whatever is done} is going to render him literally a ''Eunuch'' as he states?
”It's basic common sense, surely.”

Presumably, he hoped he would wake up feeling like he was a woman. Instead, he realised he was never going to be a woman, but was still a man, only now he was surgically mutilated.

Back in earlier days, we are told that those who wanted this surgery went through extensive counseling about its limitations: that you would never be female, that it was cosmetic only, giving relief from the removal of body parts that were causing genuine distress and replacing them with something that would hopefully relieve that distress.

I suspect that is what’s been lost. The expectations people have are no longer realistic and the NHS likely now shies away from the brutal honesty about this procedure that has probably protected them from this kind of action previously.

it’s complicated because suing the NHS when it is already financially on the ropes is awful. But I’ve long thought that this entire movement would probably only be brought down when the medical negligence cases piled so high that they could no longer be ignored.

I think these procedures will eventually be seen as being as damaging as lobotomy. I think the swing against it will cause a significant backlash, which might go much further than it would have, had this not become so incredibly over-reaching. Those who have pushed so heavily to normalize, or even popularize this have created this monster. Having surgery to look like the opposite sex, if done at all, should always have been an absolute last resort for a tiny number of people.

user1498572889 · 24/06/2022 06:33

@FemmeNatal Man insists on having cock removed, says no-one told him procedure would involve removing cock.
So he got what he asked for then decided he didn’t want it so he is suing the people who gave him what he asked for. If they had refused in the first place would he be suing them for refusing?

McDuffy · 24/06/2022 06:28

Picked up by the Times too. I read the Twitter thread and can't believe he has to live like that Sad

Transgender patient says surgery ‘was biggest mistake of my life’

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d80a3964-f348-11ec-b7b8-d1bfbe7f1c7e?shareToken=ebef52f721add450e4d2c2a85af754e3

Datun · 24/06/2022 06:28

WalrusSubmarine · 24/06/2022 06:08

If the NHS are offering this surgery, then you believe this will help you and that you are entitled to it. If a doctor tells you this might help you, you are inclined to give it a try. If you are egged on online by your group AND told by society that anyone objecting is bigoted and hateful, then you are not going to listen to any dissent. If your therapist is worried about saying the wrong thing and is more passive then you will take this as a sign you are doing the right thing.

If there are no long term studies on detransitioners then there is nothing scientific to worry about. If even the LGBT community are saying sex doesn’t matter and can be changed and that same sex attraction is bigoted, then you won’t be supported to just be gay.

I feel so sorry for this person. It’s like he’s been funnelled to this and spat out the other end.

Exactly. He didn't have a hope. And the NHS is complicit.

Everywhere you look, they are adhering to exactly the same ideology that this man believed in.

Just last week removing the word woman from information about ovarian cancer. They pander to the ideology across the board.

Spinfit · 24/06/2022 06:27

It's a sad story but suing the NHS Trust makes little sense. There are checks and processes in place for patients who want to transition. They have to wait a few years and be assessed by at least one specialist psychiatrist to make sure that they are of "sound mind". The statement about fears that his transition medication would be stopped if he chose not to transition is legitimate - the whole idea of transition medication is, well, surgical transition. The post op complications are a separate issue and perhaps he will be compensated for that if there is proof that the risk (however small) was not discussed and documented on the original consent form. It is an extremely long process waiting for gender reassignment surgery on the NHS and the reason some people go private if they can afford it.

mumda · 24/06/2022 06:16

NHS being sued is nothing new. But it shouldn't be making this sort of end result. One would assume life changing optional surgery is really carried out in a well structured way so that the victim understands the consequence of this situation.
Measuring competence and understanding of consequences needs to be in place. At what point do personal insurances get affected?

WalrusSubmarine · 24/06/2022 06:08

If the NHS are offering this surgery, then you believe this will help you and that you are entitled to it. If a doctor tells you this might help you, you are inclined to give it a try. If you are egged on online by your group AND told by society that anyone objecting is bigoted and hateful, then you are not going to listen to any dissent. If your therapist is worried about saying the wrong thing and is more passive then you will take this as a sign you are doing the right thing.

If there are no long term studies on detransitioners then there is nothing scientific to worry about. If even the LGBT community are saying sex doesn’t matter and can be changed and that same sex attraction is bigoted, then you won’t be supported to just be gay.

I feel so sorry for this person. It’s like he’s been funnelled to this and spat out the other end.

CherryReid · 24/06/2022 06:08

He withdrew into an online world where he felt at peace. There, at 23, he found discussions about gender dysphoria, the fear of living in the wrong sexual body. ‘That’s me, I thought.’

Quote from the Daily Mail article.

Seems he went down the online rabbit hole - believed what he read.
You cannot stop someone from doing this whatever age.

ResisterRex · 24/06/2022 06:07

I can't believe the lack of sympathy or compassion by some posters. We support care leavers until age 21 and up to 25 in some cases because we know this group hasn't had the same help as others. We know young adults sometimes need more help.

This young man was on HRT I believe. The Cass review said we don't know what some of these drugs do to the brain. Could it not be at least feasible that his decision making was impaired?

Look at what he reports. Not being able to even go to the toilet. Can you imagine that? For the rest of your whole life?

The NHS does not get it right always eg maternity care, the infected blood scandal. Perhaps they should consider a scheme to compensate now because it seems it's where they will have to go.

MrsOwainGlyndŵr · 24/06/2022 05:52

This reply has been deleted

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No one told him he'd be infertile either after his penis and testicles were removed 🤷🏽‍♀️

Ponderingwindow · 24/06/2022 05:34

Even surgeries that are necessary to save someone’s life from the progression of disease require informed consent and occasionally even psychological evaluation. Things like organ transplants and some bariatric surgery require patients who really understand the commitment they are making to a lifetime of follow-up or the surgery is pointless and endangers the patients life instead of protecting them.

Surgery on healthy genitalia should require serious screening and mental health evaluations.

Datun · 24/06/2022 05:28

They told the police that a patient couldn't possibly have been raped because the man who did it was akcherly a woman. Ffs.

And they remove the penis from another man for exactly the same reason.

This has to stop.

Datun · 24/06/2022 05:22

WarriorN · 24/06/2022 05:14

He has autism and is also gay.

He loves sparkly shiny materials and is
Male sex attracted.

The nhs and stonewall led him to believe that therefore he was a woman.

Exactly. You cant go eradicating the word woman and the very concept of female biology being actually female and then say oh we didn't mean it like that.

WarriorN · 24/06/2022 05:14

He has autism and is also gay.

He loves sparkly shiny materials and is
Male sex attracted.

The nhs and stonewall led him to believe that therefore he was a woman.

WarriorN · 24/06/2022 05:11

Has anyone mentioned that he has autism? (We know who this is and he's so brave speaking out.)

That people and children with autism are particularly vulnerable to this ideology?

That the NAS is captured, counsellors are unable to challenge in order to properly asses?

That the system completely let him down?

It's a no win no fee basis so the lawyers must be confident.

Flopisfatteningbingforchristmas · 24/06/2022 04:42

The first online leaflet I found on google clearly lists the potential risks. Is this enough? The nhs has a 100snof similar leaflets for other operations.

www.leedsandyorkpft.nhs.uk/our-services/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/10/v3_vaginoplasty-leaflet_gender_dysphoria.pdf

Flopisfatteningbingforchristmas · 24/06/2022 04:32

I would be interested to know what it said on the surgery consent form, they always list potential side effects.

BellaAmorosa · 24/06/2022 04:22

I feel so sorry for the man in question. I read the original tweet thread, not the DM article, and it was heartbreaking. (As an aside, it has been a big shock to me to realise how much of a comeback homophobia has made in the last decade. So depressing.)
However, I don't think he should be suing the NHS. IANAL, but if the surgical procedure itself wasn't botched, but the outcome was suboptimal that is just unfortunate. His only justified complaint against the NHS would be if they didn't talk him through the risks properly. Iirc, he said that in the original tweets. From what he also said about his state of mind at the time, it's highly unlikely that being informed would have made any difference. He was set on this course. If he sues anyone, it should be the despicable people in the online community which convinced and encouraged him. But when all is said and done, he was an adult. Adults do stupid things, make bad decisions with long lasting repercussions. We can't protect everyone from themselves.
Re the NHS, I agree with the pp who pointed out the pressure it is under to affirm on pain of being sued. And in fairness, this procedure is well established, it's not experimental. A case like this just shows why it was previously always carried out as a last resort, on men who could not live any other way and after extensive therapy.
Publicity about his situation will help others see that "bottom surgery" isn't what it's cracked up to be.

Datun · 24/06/2022 04:17

FacebookPhotos · 24/06/2022 00:24

It was always going to get to this point.

Life altering elective surgery performed on people who were too mentally ill to consent. Of course the doctors need to be held to account.

I have no truck with the "what did he expect" posters. When someone has a mental health problem it is exceptionally poor care to chop off their healthy body parts. And the doctors who do that are culpable.

Kiera Bell tried the judicial review route and was knocked back. Suing is the only thing which will stop this happening over and over again.

I agree. The NHS has no business cutting off mens' penises, ffs. They've bought into an ideology. We know that. Across the board. It's insane. They actually buy it all.

This man was blinded by transgenderism. Encouraged by unscrupulous whack jobs online.

I've read some utter claptrap about post surgery female orgasms coursing through male bodies. Men who claim even their partners cant tell. It's all rubbish. And an impressionable, miserable man who thinks being gay is horrifying has bought into it all.

That's bad enough. But the bloody NHS taking part in it is unforgivable.

When the NHS actually believe in the ideology what hope do their vulnerable patients have?

Notcreativeatall · 24/06/2022 03:02

The only evidence we have that he was vulnerable is that he was trans/exploring being trans - but we are also constantly told that being trans is not a mental illness and shouldn't be treated as such - eg its a physical condition resolved by hormones and/or surgery
There is so much pressure on the NHS to support gender reassignment that i'm not sure what they could have done (assuming they did tell him all the possible side-effects)- everything i see is talking about reducing the time people have to wait for surgery- and this person is claiming they rushed him into it (after 2 years delay)

MangyInseam · 24/06/2022 02:51

Even among adults, there are plenty of people who are vulnerable in some way, not psychologically able to make good decisions, under the influence of others, intellectually limited, etc.

And something that is true of many many people is that they believe that when doctors tell them that a surgery is an option to fix a problem, it means the surgery is well established at doing so most of the time. They believe that doctors would not support surgeries with a lot of poor outcomes.

That's not only with these surgeries, it also comes into play when people are offered surgery for other things, like cancers. Very often they have an overly optimistic view of the benefits and the underestimate the risks and general unpleasentness of likely outcomes.

When you additionally have these interest groups and the media making out like these transition surgeries are great, it's totally to be expected that people would make poor assessments. Doctors would have to go to great lengths to make clear that they are not great, and we know that mostly they don't.

Given that the outcomes are so poor it's questionable whether it's ethical for doctors to do them at all, regardless of whether the patient wants them.