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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How to refuse to share pronouns verbally

242 replies

EthelbertaChickerel · 23/06/2022 10:18

I'm going to a course tomorrow, and have just received an email from the course leader. This includes her pronouns, and I'm now concerned we will all be asked to share them verbally when the day starts.

If it is just writing them on badges, I will leave it blank, but I don't know how big the group is, and I am worried that if it is small, we will be asked to introduce ourselves and share pronouns. I'm fine with the introductions, just not with the pronouns.

What is the best, but most polite, way to shut this down? I have paid quite a lot of money for this day and want to get as much out of it as possible, but am not happy to compromise my principles.

TL:DR - I love the Mumsnet standard 'my pronouns are sex-based, like my oppression', and would be happy to put that in an email, but not sure about saying it.
Does anyone have any alternatives?

OP posts:
Iamnotamermaid · 23/06/2022 13:27

WeeBisom · 23/06/2022 13:19

I was in a pronoun circle and I dealt with it by saying 'hi, I'm weebisom...' and then smiled and gestured to the next person to go ahead. I was the only person who didn't state pronouns. The only downside to this was I had two people come up afterwards asking why I didn't state my pronouns!

I dread the day I have to do this. Why did you not state your pronouns?

I do not feel comfortable with this requirement slap my gender identity and sexuality around peoples faces. Whilst I respect your need to do so, please respect mine from refraining. You know my name, please use that if you need my attention.

UWhatNow · 23/06/2022 13:24

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

OverTheRubicon · 23/06/2022 13:23

Why be so difficult about it? Of course there's a lot of nonsense sometimes in these things, but if you've paid money for it there is no need to start right out by putting people's backs up.

If it helps but there are people including some gender-critical women who people might find hard to visually categorise and benefit from this.

Similarly, my family are from overseas and due to my name I have in the past been assumed to be a man when corresponding by email (not always as beneficial as you think, people can feel catfished), and saying 'Ms OTB' in a signoff has always felt weird, one side benefit of declaring pronouns has been avoiding this. Do I think it's necessary? No. Are there bigger battles to focus on? Absolutely yes.

WeeBisom · 23/06/2022 13:19

I was in a pronoun circle and I dealt with it by saying 'hi, I'm weebisom...' and then smiled and gestured to the next person to go ahead. I was the only person who didn't state pronouns. The only downside to this was I had two people come up afterwards asking why I didn't state my pronouns!

HairyDad · 23/06/2022 13:14

I've never been to a course, or a meeting, or any type of gathering where pronouns have even been mentioned. I'd just say my name. Seriously who asks what your pronouns are?? If they ask, I'd just say I don't know what a pronoun is

AlisonDonut · 23/06/2022 13:10

5zeds · 23/06/2022 13:00

Perhaps interpretive dance?

Take some play doh? And start to mould it whilst insisting that everyone watches you?

Sallypally0 · 23/06/2022 13:02

'I have not decided on my gender so cannot answer your question'

aka fuck off with your pronoun bull shit.

WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles · 23/06/2022 13:02

TullyApplebottom · 23/06/2022 10:29

“You only need to refer to me in the third person when I’m not here; and I’m long past caring what people say about me behind my back”

I do very much like this too.

5zeds · 23/06/2022 13:00

Perhaps interpretive dance?

WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles · 23/06/2022 12:59

Obviously I use my real name, not my MN name, as that would be awks in a pronoun circle...

WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles · 23/06/2022 12:59

I think the difficulty with "I prefer not to say" is that people who buy into the pronoun bollocks, look at you admiringly and earnestly thinking "she must be non binary, how brave and stunning". (The irony of "she" there!)

I say "My name is WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles and I'm a woman" whilst being careful not to smile. In my head I look serious and uncompromising but in RL I probably just look a right grumpy twat.

SafferUpNorth · 23/06/2022 12:49

TullyApplebottom · 23/06/2022 10:29

“You only need to refer to me in the third person when I’m not here; and I’m long past caring what people say about me behind my back”

Love this! I'd use this line!

The whole pronouns thing is so ridiculously woke, I refuse to have any part of it. I don't mind people stating their pronouns if they genuinely feel they want/need to, but the trend that everyone should do this is bloody barmy.

redbigbananafeet · 23/06/2022 12:47

TullyApplebottom · 23/06/2022 10:29

“You only need to refer to me in the third person when I’m not here; and I’m long past caring what people say about me behind my back”

I think I love you 😆

5zeds · 23/06/2022 12:47

I just can’t imagine this situation. Is it supposed to make you feel more welcome? Confused. I’d just give my name and move on.

Whybot · 23/06/2022 12:45

What about saying
“I’d prefer not to mention mine . I have two X chromosomes, so you probably can all work this out yourselves. Do feel free to call me by my first name. If you insist on a pronoun some people call me Dr.” They’re not going to check whether you ve got a PhD or not .
The more of us that do this the better.

BasilParsley · 23/06/2022 12:36

"You can call me what you like as long as you don't call me late for dinner" with a sweet smile....

GCRich · 23/06/2022 12:33

"When I am referring to men my third person pronouns are "he / him" and when I am referring to women my third person pronouns are "she / her"."

or

"Because I detest authoritarianism and a lack a nasty narcissistic streak I don't go around demanding that others refer to me as what I am not".

Artichokeleaves · 23/06/2022 12:28

Smile and 'no thank you'.

If pressed: 'I don't agree with pressuring people to share highly sensitive information in front of others whether or not they would like to'.

And if argued with: 'You have actually read the Yogyakarta principles haven't you? You are aware of the issues involved?'

Such as potentially outing people, forcing people to lie to save face or because they are not ready to speak - and yes, it's fashionable to only care about TQ+ people experiencing this but it's actually exactly the same for people who don't wish to pray this catechism because it's against their beliefs.

And if it's being done without any knowledge or understanding, it's empty virtue signalling that is about how it feels to be so progressive with no real connection, understanding or feeling. And that's as patronising as it is insulting.

JustWaking · 23/06/2022 12:27

I'm not going to share pronouns. Sharing pronouns is part of the 'gender ideology' political belief, which I disagree with. I think it's misguided, and harmful to women, gay people and trans people. I know the harm's not intentional, but it's significant.

One unintended side-effect is that talking about pronouns and making out they're important increases gender stereotypes and increases the discrimination I face. People even put them in email signatures (!) which implies that your sex actually matters to your ability to do your job! I'm a woman in a male-dominated job. I've spent my entire career having to prove that's not true.

I accept that I can't control other people's choices around this, but I'd really rather nobody shared pronouns.

  • As much of this as applies/you feel comfortable with
ItWillBeOkHonestly · 23/06/2022 12:23

It's such a weird concept that someone might insist that you tell them how they must refer to you when you are not present. That's some me mental gymnastics right there.

However, I like the simple 'forget to mention them' approach or if pushed, just a polite 'you can just call me by my name'. 😊

FemmeNatal · 23/06/2022 12:17

“Oh, I’m not sure, how do I find them out? Is there a blood test or something?”

ChimChimeny · 23/06/2022 12:15

MsFogi · 23/06/2022 11:25

I will never state my pronouns but reading this does make me wonder how the f**k this works in practise - big group meeting/training etc, everyone introduces themselves and their pronouns, there is no way on earth anyone can remember that John is ze/zem, Emma is win/won, Henry is they/them, Fiona is he/him and Andrew is he/him when it rains but she/her when it is not raining. Does everyone spend the rest of the day/week correcting each other/asking for reminders/getting offended/doing contortions to avoid using pronouns at all? It is ridiculous and we all need to just say 'no'.

Based.on all the email signatures I've seen at work so far their pronouns are pretty bloody obvious so nothing to remember!

FunnyTalks · 23/06/2022 12:13

saveforthat · 23/06/2022 11:23

I'm still angry from a course I went to a couple of weeks ago where the ice breaker was to get up from your desk and stand next to your pronoun (hand made paper signs).

Jfc! How can one honestly respond to that? Go and lie down on the opposite side of the room?

If pronouns mean gender (which they do to the people who ask this question) how do you respond if you don't have a gender ID?

I strongly object to being forced to define my atheism through the lens of a religion.

Rosehugger · 23/06/2022 12:12

I would go down the route of not offering pronouns and if pressed, would say "I'd rather not specify."

Rosehugger · 23/06/2022 12:11

I did a yoga course where there one participant was a transwoman and I'm glad to say that pronouns or gender were never brought up. We all shared things about ourselves during discussion sessions but there was nothing forced and it was all natural and non-pressurising. As it should be!