Page 3 | How to refuse to share pronouns verbally

EthelbertaChickerel · 2022-06-23T09:18:23+00:00

I'm going to a course tomorrow, and have just received an email from the course leader. This includes her pronouns, and I'm now concerned we will all be asked to share them verbally when the day starts. If it is just writing them on badges, I will leave it blank, but I don't know how big the group is, and I am worried that if it is small, we will be asked to introduce ourselves and share pronouns. I'm fine with the introductions, just not with the pronouns. What is the best, but most polite, way to shut this down? I have paid quite a lot of money for this day and want to get as much out of it as possible, but am not happy to compromise my principles. TL:DR - I love the Mumsnet standard 'my pronouns are sex-based, like my oppression', and would be happy to put that in an email, but not sure about saying it. Does anyone have any alternatives?

bumblingbovine49 · 24/06/2022 07:24

I would say I am happy to addressed by whatever pronoun the person talking to me feels is most appropriate .

I would them assume most people will use female pronouns but If someone calls me him/ he ( withe by mistake or to make a point) then I will serenely accept it I am female whatever pronoun is used to describe me.

Numbat2022 · 24/06/2022 07:21

I think you're unlikely to be directly asked - you can just ignore the request and 'forget' to say. This is my approach at my very pronoun-keen work. However, if I am ever asked I plan to say 'Oh, whatever you think most appropriate '. (Being openly GC would be way too much hassle - I'm hoping this all fades away in a few years and gets forgotten.)

For what it's worth I present as very feminine, big boobs, usually wear dresses, it's blindingly obvious I'm a woman. But if someone wanted to be obtuse and refer to me as something else, that's up to them.

lovelyweathertoday · 24/06/2022 07:13

Damnit, post didn't work correctly. Answer to the direct pronoun question (which is unlikely to be asked at all) was a blank stare until they move on.

lovelyweathertoday · 24/06/2022 07:12

I would completely ignore requests for pronouns. So introduce myself as "Hi, I'm lovelyweather, I work in X team as a Y."

"Welcome lovely, what are you pronouns?"

ThinkingaboutLangClegosaurus · 24/06/2022 07:10

TullyApplebottom · 23/06/2022 10:29

“You only need to refer to me in the third person when I’m not here; and I’m long past caring what people say about me behind my back”

Good one!

lovelyweathertoday · 24/06/2022 07:07

More examples on this site, which is a tool for people to share the pronouns they want to be referred to by:
https://pronouny.xyz/pronouns/list/public

Is that website satire? I genuinely can't tell.

saveforthat · 23/06/2022 19:28

What I actually said @WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles was mine isn't there why isn't there an Other category and they said what are your pronouns then and I said Her Majesty and they said that comes under She/Her 😄

MrsOwainGlyndŵr · 23/06/2022 19:19

I would say "call me anything you like as long as you don't call me English"!
I'm Welsh. I probably wouldn't say that.

Veryverycalmnow · 23/06/2022 19:08

Ohsugarhoneyicetea · 23/06/2022 16:44

I haven't decided what my pronouns are yet, as Ive been working on my adjectives. Brilliant, witty, engaging, stunning and brave are the key words. Im mandating their use in any and all discussions about me where I am not present. And particularly in any kind of performance review. I'll be circulating a document later with the comprehensive list. Any deviations will be regarded as a hate crime.

This is great!

RoyKentsChestHair · 23/06/2022 19:04

Ohsugarhoneyicetea · 23/06/2022 16:44

I haven't decided what my pronouns are yet, as Ive been working on my adjectives. Brilliant, witty, engaging, stunning and brave are the key words. Im mandating their use in any and all discussions about me where I am not present. And particularly in any kind of performance review. I'll be circulating a document later with the comprehensive list. Any deviations will be regarded as a hate crime.

This one wins for me!!

Gcautist · 23/06/2022 19:01

I was recently introduced to someone who
doesnt use pronouns with regard to themselves and everyone had to use their name. I didn’t have the guts to ask if there was a reason for that but I admired their stance.

Vebrithien · 23/06/2022 18:58

So.
Asking for a friend...
How does one pronounce these Yogy-thingy principles...?

goldfinchonthelawn · 23/06/2022 18:39

I would be SO tempted to make an issue out of it by feigning total ignorance:
My pronouns? I'm sorry I don't understand? What pronouns? You can use 'you' if you are talking to me - does that sound good? I use I when referring to myself. I thought that was universal. Please would you explain? How I want to be referred to behind my back? I'm Goldfinch? He or she? You want to know if I prefer to be talked about as he or she? I need to declare this do I? Can I give it some thought?

Terfydactyl · 23/06/2022 18:33

AgathaAllAlong · 23/06/2022 13:43

Hang on a minute, have I read this right - you guys don't use pronouns? So do your friends and family always refer to you as 'she' or 'her' they literally say your name every single time they talk about you?

Perhaps you don't want to answer because you are nonbinary and don't want to disclose this.

More likely, what you find offensive about it is the idea that the person can't tell what pronouns you go by from looking at you. Well, the reality is that they can't. The people talking to you do not know what you want to be called unless you tell them. It's not an offensive question, any more than asking you if you go by a nickname.

Presumably you want to use the occasion to posture about trans views. So you could always say "my pronouns are female, like my sex" ... but most people have pronouns, it's weird to refuse to disclose them.

also they almost certainly will not ask. loads of people have them in emails, but would not ask you.

I do not care what my family or friends or random people call me whenI'm not there.
Zero fucks given. I dont have a clue how they talk about me.

Do you care what anyone says about you when your not even there? How do you know what words they use?

Original poster

EthelbertaChickerel · 23/06/2022 18:15

LiesDoNotBecomeUs · 23/06/2022 14:15

I don't dictate on grammar matters outside of work.

I really like this response, as it is directly relevant to my job (although the course is not).

OP posts:

Bergamotte · 23/06/2022 18:02

similarminimer · 23/06/2022 17:30

Why is it she/her and they/them rather than she or they? The 2nd bit leads grammatically from the first. Or are there they/her who would like to be referred to a they, but anything they own is hers?

You may know that grammatically "she" matches with "her," but people can't be expected to know all possible pronoun combinations.
For example would you be confident that "ze" matches with "zir"?

More examples on this site, which is a tool for people to share the pronouns they want to be referred to by:
pronouny.xyz/pronouns/list/public

SerendipityJane · 23/06/2022 17:40

Why is it she/her and they/them rather than she or they?

Why does it have to be any existing word at all ?

Brillig/slithy

now put that in your "app" and shove it up your arse.

5zeds · 23/06/2022 17:31

The trick is to ask yourself "what would Jesus a man do ?"
Amen

similarminimer · 23/06/2022 17:30

Why is it she/her and they/them rather than she or they? The 2nd bit leads grammatically from the first. Or are there they/her who would like to be referred to a they, but anything they own is hers?

SerendipityJane · 23/06/2022 17:25

Just ask :

"What do you think I should put ?".

Last time anyone tried this on with me, I just changed them 3 times in the first hour, after telling them I hadn't decided yet. Yes, you need to be old, not very attractive and have ovaries of steel (like my DM).

The trick is to ask yourself "what would Jesus a man do ?"

Faffertea · 23/06/2022 17:16

Some new (to me) names on this thread although I appreciate regulars do name change.
Anyway, thought this seemed an aposite moment to share this excellent article for anyone who hasn’t seen it before.

fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 23/06/2022 17:13

Those of us who refuse to play the game are not the weird ones.

Agreed. Havel's essay about the greengrocer and the sign is still relevant.

Let us take note: if the greengrocer had been instructed to display the slogan "I am afraid and therefore unquestioningly obedient;' he would not be nearly as indifferent to its semantics, even though the statement would reflect the truth.
…
In an era when metaphysical and existential certainties are in a state of crisis, when people are being uprooted and alienated and are losing their sense of what this world means, this ideology inevitably has a certain hypnotic charm. To wandering humankind it offers an immediately available home: all one has to do is accept it, and suddenly everything becomes clear once more, life takes on new meaning, and all mysteries, unanswered questions, anxiety, and loneliness vanish. Of course, one pays dearly for this low-rent home: the price is abdication of one’s own reason, conscience, and responsibility, for an essential aspect of this ideology is the consignment of reason and conscience to a higher authority.

hac.bard.edu/amor-mundi/the-power-of-the-powerless-vaclav-havel-2011-12-23

FemmeNatal · 23/06/2022 17:11

AgathaAllAlong · 23/06/2022 16:49

Ok I see. Thanks to everyone for explaining what you dislike about it. This was very helpful -

I actually have no wish to upset anyone; I don't care if others wish to declare their pronouns. The problem is that I find it immensely upsetting to be prompted to mouth a belief I do not uphold. In fact, I find that belief damaging and dangerous, particularly to women.

@Braggiography I do think my assumptions were wrong. I thought that the resistance was due to not liking the gender ideology movement. But it seems to be that people on this thread think that you should not compel others to use certain pronouns, because as a matter of linguistics pronouns are for others to decice, and not the person that those pronouns refer to. I don't know about that, I think I'd be peeved if people were calling me 'they'. But it at least makes sense to me.

Also yes, to answer your question from earlier - I do think that people who think of themselves as pronounless are "weird"!

Im ny experience no-one who uses pronouns in their bio, or who announces them is worth giving the time of day to. It just isn;t a thing in normal society, it's for left-wing student politics, or for people trying to show how right-on they are.

It's in nearly every case a sugn that you need to disengage and walk away. Pull the job offer, rescind the party invitation stop the car and ask them to get out.

MyneighbourisTotoro · 23/06/2022 17:08

I’d just say my name and nothing else, if K was pressed further I was say I don’t feel the need to use pronouns for myself.

AlisonDonut · 23/06/2022 17:05

AgathaAllAlong · 23/06/2022 16:49

Ok I see. Thanks to everyone for explaining what you dislike about it. This was very helpful -

I actually have no wish to upset anyone; I don't care if others wish to declare their pronouns. The problem is that I find it immensely upsetting to be prompted to mouth a belief I do not uphold. In fact, I find that belief damaging and dangerous, particularly to women.

@Braggiography I do think my assumptions were wrong. I thought that the resistance was due to not liking the gender ideology movement. But it seems to be that people on this thread think that you should not compel others to use certain pronouns, because as a matter of linguistics pronouns are for others to decice, and not the person that those pronouns refer to. I don't know about that, I think I'd be peeved if people were calling me 'they'. But it at least makes sense to me.

Also yes, to answer your question from earlier - I do think that people who think of themselves as pronounless are "weird"!

Also yes, to answer your question from earlier - I do think that people who think of themselves as pronounless are "weird"!

Pronouns are a power play.

It has been co-opted as a way of getting people [mainly women], to submit and call men 'she' or 'her'.

Those of us who refuse to play the game are not the weird ones.