Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How to refuse to share pronouns verbally

242 replies

EthelbertaChickerel · 23/06/2022 10:18

I'm going to a course tomorrow, and have just received an email from the course leader. This includes her pronouns, and I'm now concerned we will all be asked to share them verbally when the day starts.

If it is just writing them on badges, I will leave it blank, but I don't know how big the group is, and I am worried that if it is small, we will be asked to introduce ourselves and share pronouns. I'm fine with the introductions, just not with the pronouns.

What is the best, but most polite, way to shut this down? I have paid quite a lot of money for this day and want to get as much out of it as possible, but am not happy to compromise my principles.

TL:DR - I love the Mumsnet standard 'my pronouns are sex-based, like my oppression', and would be happy to put that in an email, but not sure about saying it.
Does anyone have any alternatives?

OP posts:
AlisonDonut · 25/06/2022 12:23

CatherinaJTV · 25/06/2022 12:11

that's all great, until you get misgendered because you don't correspond to the "beholder's" idea of feminine looks or behaviour

Why, what happens?

I've been called 'Sir' before and what happened was I chuckled and went right on with my life.

PomegranateOfPersephone · 25/06/2022 12:23

I am not at all bothered by being mis-sexed. It has never happened that I can recall. My identity doesn’t depend on the validation of strangers. I am not pretending to be something I am not. I am happy to let others perceive me as they will and I think it leads to more honest and genuine relationships and less fraught communication. Better that someone mistake me for a man than I go about demanding compelled speech and compelled perceptions from others.

Letting go of trying to control the perceptions of others would be a great boon to the mental health and resilience of people obsessed with receiving external validation for their identities. As would dropping the narcissistic focus on their identities in favour of other healthier pursuits.

ValancyRedfern · 25/06/2022 12:23

Vebrithien · 23/06/2022 18:58

So.
Asking for a friend...
How does one pronounce these Yogy-thingy principles...?

Jogjakarta. It's a town in Central Java in Indonesia. (Pointless extra detail: I know how to pronounce it because I attempted to spent my gap yah near there in '97, but had to leave suddenly as there was a revolution.)

LK1972 · 25/06/2022 12:22

Yes, @CatherinaJTV, and when that happens we disappear in a puff of smoke due to denial of our existence Wink

334bu · 25/06/2022 12:18

that's all great, until you get misgendered because you don't correspond to the "beholder's" idea of feminine looks or behaviour

So what! Who cares what some sexist prick thinks!

CatherinaJTV · 25/06/2022 12:11

PomegranateOfPersephone · 23/06/2022 10:50

I love this! Very succinct!

that's all great, until you get misgendered because you don't correspond to the "beholder's" idea of feminine looks or behaviour

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 25/06/2022 12:00

IcakethereforeIam · 24/06/2022 23:00

OP glad it went well for you. I was thinking about your thread title, imagine the fun we would've had if you hadn't specified 'verbally'.

Might we have hoarded them, like our rights? Or is that only for the self-declared dinosaurs amongst us?

IcakethereforeIam · 24/06/2022 23:00

OP glad it went well for you. I was thinking about your thread title, imagine the fun we would've had if you hadn't specified 'verbally'.

EthelbertaChickerel · 24/06/2022 22:24

Just to update- thank you again for all your advice.

I had my grammar response all ready, but to my relief pronouns weren't mentioned!
It was a small, all-female group and I had a great day.

I am totally ready for any future pronoun occasions though!

OP posts:
FunnyTalks · 24/06/2022 14:03

KarmelitaSpats · 24/06/2022 09:54

i am 57 and am almost disappointed to have never been asked,
OMG the young student union rep pics at the college where i have been doing a course,,,,,,they are devoted to it,,,
boys are she/her and girls are he/him,,,,,,and the really edgy ones are ;they them.... i gaze at the panel of photos in disbelief thinking wtaf, they have been captured so young,

They haven't asked your pronouns? That's pretty ageist.

I know they think they are edgy but can you imagine pronoun people at a party?!

PomegranateOfPersephone · 24/06/2022 10:50

I don’t perceive those who demand we refer to them using the third person plural pronoun as edgy… I perceive them as embarrassing themselves in a way which may be hard for them to live down if/when they grow up. Also in some cases as being deliberately awkward (or playing power games?) as was admitted in the article posted on a different thread suggesting that compelled speech is becoming passé due to it now being widely accepted.

Also it runs through my mind to wonder if they are trying to tell us that they are possessed by a legion of demons or that they are Borg or some such. 🤔

I have probably watched too much science fiction.

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 24/06/2022 09:56

Absolutely. This obsession with labelling from a generation who insist we're all fluid, don't label me, yadda yadda

KarmelitaSpats · 24/06/2022 09:54

i am 57 and am almost disappointed to have never been asked,
OMG the young student union rep pics at the college where i have been doing a course,,,,,,they are devoted to it,,,
boys are she/her and girls are he/him,,,,,,and the really edgy ones are ;they them.... i gaze at the panel of photos in disbelief thinking wtaf, they have been captured so young,

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 24/06/2022 09:49

Beamur · 23/06/2022 13:54

Preferred pronouns are a tool to communicate either non conforming in some way (which may or may not be obvious) or adherence to an ideology that believes in gender identity.
Not having a preferred pronoun means that you don't really care how people refer to you in your absence. Because you don't believe that gender identity is relevant to you and you're unconcerned by others assuming your gender and/or sex.

👏👏👏👏

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 24/06/2022 09:47

Thinking about it I've no idea how I've got to be 40+ without telling others my pronouns.

How on earth have we all coped Hmm

KarmelitaSpats · 24/06/2022 09:42

yes what this poster said above. do a kind of disbelieving or amazed chuckle and say something like well there has never yet been any mistake on that so i will pass thanks

Libre2 · 24/06/2022 09:40

I would also feign total ignorance with a polite. “I’m sorry I haven’t got a clue what you’re talking about.” Then they go through the whole spiel whereupon you laugh in total disbelief as surely this is the most ludicrous thing EVER and say “I’m happy for you to use ‘you’ or my name when you talk to me and ‘her ladyship’ when referring to me when I’m not there”

TheFeistyFeminist · 24/06/2022 09:30

I fear this is coming down the track at work, we're talking about doing some Pride-related activities later in the year.

Part of me wants to have the confidence to reply with either "I make no attempt to compel the speech of others" or something along those lines.

Part of me wants to point out to the organisation that the man who puts he/him in his email signature today might put she/her in his email signature tomorrow, and am I supposed to nod and smile if I then find him/her in the ladies' loos?!

Part of me wants to say I won't declare pronouns any more than I'll declare my religious belief, sexual orientation or disability status - none of which have any bearing on my ability to do my job.

Part of me fears I could put my job at risk if the new HR Director turns out to be more woke than I realise.

So I'd probably just look pointedly at the next person to speak, and if pushed say "I won't be doing that".

GoodThinkingMax · 24/06/2022 09:29

Whenever people go around the circle, when it comes to my turn, I just say my name. I simply omit "my" pronouns, and don't say anything.

If you're challenged, just say you prefer not to.

MagpiePi · 24/06/2022 09:24

I would be inclined to do a massive eye roll and say 'Really? Pronouns are soooo over?'

Alltheprettyseahorses · 24/06/2022 09:08

AlisonDonut · 23/06/2022 10:33

I paid alot of money for this course, please stick to the course content and call me by my name.

Whoa, whoa, whoa - where did my quote tweet go? I'll try again. AlisonDonut nailed it on the first page.

Alltheprettyseahorses · 24/06/2022 09:06

This! You're there to benefit yourself, not to help shore up the trainer's middle-class affectations.

SirVixofVixHall · 24/06/2022 08:54

PomegranateOfPersephone · 23/06/2022 10:45

I prefer not to mandate the pronouns people use about me as I am interested in how others perceive me so I prefer not to tell them how to perceive me but to leave them free to use their own judgment.

Possibly adding…
I feel this approach supports a deeper and more honest interaction.

Very good response.

Iknowitisheresomewhere · 24/06/2022 08:46

If I am brave enough, this is what I plan to say if I ever get asked.

My name is X. I am female. Within the bounds of professional acceptability I don’t mind what anyone calls me when I am not there. I do mind the implication that I might want to dictate how people refer to me. And I feel that stating my pronouns would imply acceptance of an ideology that thinks of womanhood or manhood as a feeling in preference to a biological reality. I do not hold that belief and I think it is damaging to everyone, particularly women. If however anyone thinks that I might refer to them with a pronoun they consider wrong, please let me know, now or privately.

BarryKentPoet · 24/06/2022 07:28

"I don't know what my pronouns are, I've not been tested for it yet"

Swipe left for the next trending thread