Jeremy Vine Radio Two - discussing trans in sports

There must be a name for this particular type of middle aged white blokey twatism - like gastro pub wokeism or diversionary inclusion.

So, Jeremy. How do you think that went?

I doesn't matter how you rearrange the words. Everyone knows what a woman is.

Rearranging how you use words will not make discrimination go away and it will not turn men into women. We just lose the ability to say what we mean.

He wouldn't have them on if he thought they were women.

JV knows which who to use his special voice for, so there must be some way that he knows the difference between women and the men who want people to pretend that they are the same as women

Same debate on the Jeremy Vine talk show a few weeks ago, he allowed Owen Jones to dominate most the debate and then they will interviewed a trans activist who campaigns for inclusion women’s sport.
Vine read out some quotes from Sharon Davis in a somber voice, as though they were quotes from terrorist propaganda.

He’s picked a side, I don’t think he genuinely believes TWAW but he’s looking after his career & throwing women under the bus.

FairPlay for Women rang up three times and didn't get on.

Mixed sex sport has a place, but it is not the same as single sex sport. Sport tends to play very differently in each scenario.

That is so true!

I dont know why Vine bothers-it's just Jeremy Kyle with "O" levels.

I agree, but I got the impression that it is just the men’s team, which the caller has rebranded “mixed gender”. Possibly no-one else refers to it as that. I have no idea whether there is a women’s team as well.

Sounds better. The trap though, of course, is that if you have a "mixed gender" team, why would you need a women's team? A "mixed gender" team is more inclusive, innit?

(Some people actually seem to buy this argument. I can't see why, but it's as if it hacks their brains or something.)

NecessaryScene I agree, but I got the impression that it is just the men’s team, which the caller has rebranded “mixed gender”. Possibly no-one else refers to it as that. I have no idea whether there is a women’s team as well.

I was pleased to note that the footballer plays for a “mixed gender” team, which seems to comprise the transwoman caller and other men (i.e. a single sex team). That I can get on board with, as it is fairly and appropriately inclusive (even if the footballer is now slow and unfit since taking hormones, apparently).

Except that's not "inclusive" in isolation, because a "mixed gender" team will, inevitably, end up almost exclusively male.

That's the reason we have separate sex categories - to include women. Unless there's also a female team, women lose out.

A lot of the "compromises" end up being a mid-point between fairness to women and total exclusion of women. It's as if being fair to women is an extreme position, and we need to balance that with being unfair to women, so we end up with a compromise of being partially but not totally fair. One women's team, one men's team, and one "open" (so male-favouring) team.

Of course, if the "open"/"mixed-gender" team had some sort of handicapping or quota system, then you'd be fine. But if it's just "free-for-all", yep, it will be dominated by young healthy males.

Exactly - the biological female(s) are then at a disadvantage in both categories!

This is one of the many things that makes me really cross about this. It’s so blatantly unfair even just amongst people that identify as trans. And that unfairness is based on, who’d have thunked it, sex!
If a woman identifies as a trans man, and then decides to take hormones, they have to accept that they can no longer compete. If a man identifies as a trans woman, and decides to take hormones, they then get to choose to go in the women’s category.

I didn’t manage to listen to this, and now I think it would make me too angry anyway. So were no women (bar transman) interviewed then?!

Another pointless one sided discussion, waste of a half hour of radio.

I was pleased to note that the footballer plays for a “mixed gender” team, which seems to comprise the transwoman caller and other men (i.e. a single sex team). That I can get on board with, as it is fairly and appropriately inclusive (even if the footballer is now slow and unfit since taking hormones, apparently).

Who was on?
I'm pretty sure he has had Sharron Davies on before but was probably too scared to invite her again

Now it is a transman

JV didn't even pretend he wanted to listen to women's views.

There's only one group of people whose opinions matter to him.

As usual, the trans "athlete" speaks from their own perspective - "I feel so weak as a result of all the medication therefore elite athletes must...." It's the embedded narcissism. No mention of facts, statistics or evidence, let alone women's sport. Just the relentless erosion of anything to do with women because "I feel like this / want this".
And we're on to another endless diatribe about me with a born male 1 year into transitioning boasting about winning the best over 70 women award in cycling.

Completely unaware of their physical advantages.

Lack of women involved. Grrr

Am also shouting at the radio.

Well so far they haven't interviewed any actual women, of course.