J Lo’s daughter

@SuziSecondLaw my own child would very obviously not understand a word you said as he’s more severely language disordered but it’s a more minor confusion for a large number of autistics and also fairly obstructive for non native speakers. It really isn’t a win win for those who are already disadvantaged and struggle to communicate. They’re not given much thought by most because they literally have no voice.

It's hard enough at that age to accept that your mum is a sexual being, let alone seeing endless sexy selfies and pictures of her draping herself over yachts in teeny tiny bikinis, the whole world talking about her bum. (We're all a bit vain sometimes, but is JLo not a bit bored of it by now?). I can certainly see how the situation might make a teenage girl feel a bit conflicted about womanhood. JLo might be an extreme example, but I can't imagine it sets a normal example for any child if their parent is always posting selfies for approval (and what other reason is there?).

You're right, I don't know anybody with language disorders. I've never heard of anything like that before.
I would of course do what I could to help someone like your son understand my meaning.

@SuziSecondLaw I just say 'they' for everyone unless they've made it clear they use he or she. I just do this by default with no actual thought these days. It's not difficult, it doesn't harm anyone and stops people being from being offended, so win win win
im guessing you know very few autistic people with language disorders then? This would make it almost impossible for my son to understand what you were saying. Like many autistic children he struggled to learn pronouns at all (so I too can avoid them in conversation fairly adeptly now), using “they” in place of he/she/him/her is a disaster for an already struggling person.

I used to joke about using it/it pronouns to make ideologists squirm.

I guess teenagers will be teenagers and anything that upsets the grownups has to be a good thing!

As for J Lo, I can see why a young girl growing up in such a sexualised industry would try and find a way to cope.

"Sarah asked if Sarah could delegate some of Sarah's work as Sarah won't have time to do it all Sarah's self today?"

"Sarah doesn't have much time today so wanted to delegate some work."

I'm used to doing this, though. Several colleagues/students have preferred pronouns and I will just refer to them by name. I've gotten good at working around the problem!

There's a contagion in that family as J-lo's sister's child is trans/NB as is Afflecks's younger daughter. 3 girls who are deeply uncomfortable about their female identity.

I just say 'they' for everyone unless they've made it clear they use he or she. I just do this by default with no actual thought these days. It's not difficult, it doesn't harm anyone and stops people being from being offended, so win win win🤷🏻‍♀️

Eh?
No, declaring yourself non-binary is the fastest and most efficient way of being launched into the Trans (and LGBTQ+) utmost revered sector of humankind without actually having to be anything other than a heterosexual male or female.

You might need to dye your hair though. I forgot that bit.

100% agree

Aside from the obtuseness of the claim that highly sexualised presentation is nothing to do with men (the clue is in the word sexualised - of course it relates to the opposite sex), while some women may enjoy it, teenage girls often don’t.

@aweegc

Non binary doesn't necessarily mean trans. You can be non binary. But not be trans. Surely?

Hi, JLo, keep your child out of the limelight until they are an adult. Their gender confusion is none of my business and shouldn't be used as a publicity prop.

Well yes, seeing that becoming a woman = becoming sexualised by men/society is a reason some girls are scared of becoming a woman
Heaven forbid some women like that style themselves and it having fuck all to do with men.

You think someone decides to suddenly become trans because their mother is "heavily sexualised?!
Well yes, seeing that becoming a woman = becoming sexualised by men/society is a reason some girls are scared of becoming a woman. Nothing new there by the way. Becoming an adult human female isn't a fun process for most of us anyway and add in the sexualisation before we're ready just makes it worse.

Sounds a bit armchair Freud like.
J Lo is being herself.
Her child is their own person as well.
Nothing to do with armchair Freud. Who to be fair, may have something interesting to say about this phenomenon!
But the idea that mothers and daughters are entirely separate entities, with the older one having no influence on the younger is preposterous!

Very 🙄 to say that her child wants to opt out of being a woman because of her mum's look and style.
😂 Obviously all 14 year olds want to dress, behave and have the same careers as their mothers! (Even though they're separate entities...)

Why would that make you want to opt out of womanhood anyway? Is being "highly sexualised" something to stay away from, something to be ashamed of, something you'd want no part of?
As an adolescent girl, being sexualised is definitely something that can be unwelcome - as if you didn't know that. And women's sexualisation isn't about women, it's about men's sexual fantasies. So it's really rather strange that anybody would imagine that a child would want to meet the sexual fantasies of adult men. Because when we're discussing this, we're talking about an under age girl and I can see no reason why she should want to be sexualised.

And it's rather odd, but I sense a rather disingenuous odour here. Can't imagine why. Perhaps you can explain why a child should be comfortable being sexualised, seeing as you apparently don't understand why one wouldn't want to be? And do you realise that womanhood and "highly sexualised" don't - or should have to - go hand in hand?!

Hear hear

*it may be an idea to think why a female adolescent of a heavily sexualised mother, who is being lead (willingly or not, who knows) into the same industry that so sexualised her mother, decides to identify as "not a woman".
Oh wow.
You think someone decides to suddenly become trans because their mother is "heavily sexualised?!
Sounds a bit armchair Freud like.
J Lo is being herself.
Her child is their own person as well.
Very 🙄 to say that her child wants to opt out of being a woman because of her mum's look and style.
Why would that make you want to opt out of womanhood anyway? Is being "highly sexualised" something to stay away from, something to be ashamed of, something you'd want no part of?

@GoodJanetBadJanet Out of curiosity, what is your position on 'it' pronouns? Like you, I prefer to use a person's chosen pronouns (not always popular on FWR), but I have known people who actively want 'it' to be used. Like most gay people (and I'm sure, many straight ones), I really struggle with that as it feels inherently insulting.

Supporting an ideology that excludes many women and girls from their own single sex spaces for the sake oft a feeling is a man's head makes one a dick panderer.

I think people choosing their own pronouns is annoying and silly because i dont really believe in innate gender.
However my dd prefers they them pronouns and weve had loads of discussions on it, and both understand each others POV and I do try and remember to use they/them because it makes them happy and feel listened to.
Its actually since weve all been trying to use them more that weve been able to open up the discussion better and put boundaries in place about it.
Its not fair to assume that JLO is all for it and encouraging it or has any strong feelings one way or the other.
It would be very hard to be in the public eye and probably worse for her career to be openly GC whether she is or not, let alone her relationship with her kid, which is surely the most important thing?

I'd rather be a dick than a dick panderer.
That got a genuine lol 🤣
Using pronouns and accepting trans peoples identities doesn't automatically make you a dick panderer 😂
You do you though lol, you be a dick and I'm fine with you thinking I'm a "dick panderer" 😁

They = non binary and non binary = trans under the generally understood trans umbrella (plus Stonewall's umbrella).

And the kid had a rainbow on the mic - which can't be a coincidence.

The sad thing is gender identity is so irrelevant in so many ways. Here's a kid with - presumably - an impressive voice. Nobody talks about the voice quality, just the pronouns. If the world made more sense, the discussion would be about children's achievements, not their temporarily self-assigned labels.

However, if pronouns and gender identity are to be discussed then it may be an idea to think why a female adolescent of a heavily sexualised mother, who is being lead (willingly or not, who knows) into the same industry that so sexualised her mother, decides to identify as "not a woman".

I’m not referring to a man as she or her. I might have done a few years ago to “be kind” but the TRA burned that bridge down so nope

men however they present are not women

as for J Lo none of us know her so I can’t ascribe motivation

My younger sister has come out as a transman. I don't have contact with them anyway, but when I've been discussing them with other family members, I've just used their new masculine name or "they/them/their" as "he" doesn't come naturally, but I've always used "they".

I'm an atheist with regard to all woo.

If all non-believers refused to play along with religion we could have skipped the holy wars, inquisition, witch burning, gay hating. mess that it created.