Fina stops transgender swimmers from competing in women's elite events

The best women are not as fast or as strong as the best men. But female gymnasts are better on the beam than male gymnasts (ever wonder why the male and female disciplines are different in gymnastics?) because the difference in pelvic alignment makes females better at balancing on a narrow beam. The female body isn't 'worse' than the male body, but it is different. For sport to be meaningful that has to be acknowledged.

Just watched the BBC news reporting on this. Jane Dougall and Karen Pickering are fully supportive of FINA and their decision.

They included Harper of course who wibbled on with nothing new to add. And it struck me that Harper really is all for letting women be harmed until the evidence is in instead of only allowing males in if the research is clear, repeatable and robust but that they are not allowed until such time... And I think we all know that that research can't really be produced now that males have every reason to underperform to get what they want.

The rugby bit is slightly confusing though. The RFU still allows self-id but World Rugby banned males in female sport.

I think it's the difference between international rules and what happens at national level. I think I heard them say on 5Live that swimming will be the same with national bodies making their own decisions.

They know there’s not much call for an open category and won’t be funding for it. Also some of them aren’t getting a guaranteed win like the woman’s category.
I’m glad this has been done timely before the next Olympics. I don’t think the average person takes that much notice of sports like swimming until the Olympics. What did they think would be the reaction of one country lost to another because their competitor was a man.

So pleased about this. It must be such a relief for the women swimmers who were unable to speak up due to fear of the usual backlash.

The cynic in me now predicts a few detransitioners in the near future.

@Truepostromance I'm not denying difference for a single second, which is why I went to no end in my comment to emphasize a third space not a merging of spaces, providing opportunity for choice.

Exploring ideas does not make someone thick, thanks very much.

So pleased about this development. Seb Coe has always appeared to be quietly sensible on this matter.

I wonder if Dr Richard Budgett of the IOC is currently getting all reference to his recent assertion that everyone believes transwomen are women removed from internet search engines so that he can rewrite history in the face of a turning tide.

Firstly I've always wondered if separate categories perpetuate the idea that female athletes are somehow inferior @LolaandTim

Look, its not ' equality' to deny difference. Pretending we are all the same in every way is not progressive, its just a bit thick. Its pretty much like those people who try to proclaim their anti-racism by declaring proudly, ' I don't see colour!'

The best women are not as good as the best men at sports, not cos the women are just a bit crap or not trying hard enough but simply because our bodies are different. For so many areas of life, not just sport, its important, for women's safety, dignity and fairness, that we recognise this.

Can't remember the exact wording but does the "any part of male puberty or age 12, whichever is later" means that if someone doesn't enter puberty until they are 15 they can compete against women until they are 14?

Athletics could be interesting as the BBC report says, there aren't currently any top level transgender athletes on the level of Lia in swimming. But banning "any part of male puberty" is going to have an effect on the rules for DSD athletes, isn't it?

I would imagine that other sports will follow suit very shortly. Not because they're madly reviewing in light of FINA but because they've been considering the science for some time but just waiting for someone to go first.

I would imagine that new policies are ready to roll out as we speak.

Such a sensible fair decision. How could this even have been a source of contention? Hope other bodies follow this.

“But women fought for their own funding and events; let transwomen do the same.”

Exactly. I don’t want it to be a situation of “We women fought for what we wanted so you’re on your own; fight your own fight” because I would strongly support trans/open categories and would happily add my voice to campaign for it, but it shouldn’t be the case that others can piggy back our hard-won efforts and then take them away from us from the inside.

Post of the day!🤣

Contd…
Athletics is a sport which has tied itself in knots over these issues, but it looks like they will also fall in line behind swimming’ lead :

www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/jun/20/sebastian-coe-hints-athletics-may-bar-transgender-women-from-female-competition

Not surprising. Now that one major Olympic sport has introduced a properly researched, scientifically credible & evidence based policy on the issue of transgender athletes’ participation in women’s categories, I would expect many other sports to treat this as a precedent.

The rugby bit is slightly confusing though. The RFU still allows self-id but World Rugby banned males in female sport.

Interview with Sharron Davies in the Times:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3f3faec8-f0b2-11ec-b0c8-27c99cdfb733?shareToken=c0319e1281e93c88403fcb11d762110b

The Times are reporting that both football and athletics are likely to follow FINA's lead:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/6ac8b4e2-f09c-11ec-9bea-abc2bc5953e5?shareToken=6af25e8e4166da073aa266c0af7596ef

😂😂😂

Why is there a need for a third category as FINA has made the male category an open category, including for the first time transmen on testosterone? Will transwoman or transmen win in this category is debatable but nothing is stopping them from competing.

I also think so many younger transwomen have no idea of who went before.
Seb Coe now being called an overprivileged jogger! I am not keen on Tory peers, but the man does have several Olympic medals. Just like Martina Navratilova was asked what she had ever achieved 2 years ago, and Caitlin Jenner as well.:)

Megan Rapinoe does not represent most elite athletes.

At an elite level, these swimmers (of any gender) will probably be training 20 + hours/week in the pool and gym (males and females). That wouldn't change.

Kids aren't suddenly going to conclude "I'm not going to learn to swim because I can't get a gold medal/World Record".

Trans will now have the choice of competing with their biological peers, or in a new "trans" category. Presumably that will take a while to formalise with regards acceptable levels of drugs/anti-doping limits.

I'm glad this decision came out now, before it became an issue for too many women. Let's hope other sporting bodies see sense too.

Aha well it would be interesting to know why they think that is women's problem, exactly, and why women should be pushed out because of recruitment and funding issues.

On Twitter, transwomen are moaning that there won't be enough of them in the open category, and not enough funding. I want to reply" oh like women's sports back in the day?" I can't though, for fear of being abused. But women fought for their own funding and events; let transwomen do the same.