Fina stops transgender swimmers from competing in women's elite events

Elated to read this.

Exactly. Anyone in elite swimming is swimming from a very young age, many hours. It just wouldn’t be compatible with the time taken to transition.

So, what now happens to Lia Thomas’s world record beating times?

No woman is going to be able to beat them, because they’re not women’s records.

I hope they are going to remove them.

I would say that fully 'transitioning' before the age of 12 <shudder> and all that that involves, is not compatible with competing elite sport anyway. I think that FINA knows this.

Because men don’t want men’s records to become open records?

Put it this way, I question whether any of these athletes are actually trans. They've just seen a loophole that they can use to achieve success.

I suspect there will be some quiet "de-transitioning" going on very shortly.

Brilliant news

I think people thinking about children transitioning before the age of 12 to be able to compete in elite sports are missing a key point.

Athletes like Lia Thomas decided that they were women after competing at elite levels in men's sport, and decided to "transition" in their 20s or 40s. And people like Lia Thomas have simply reduced their testosterone levels, and seemingly have no interest in taking oestrogen or having any surgery, they never displayed any transgender signs earlier in their lives.

Put it this way, I question whether any of these athletes are actually trans. They've just seen a loophole that they can use to achieve success.

Some good news at last!

Do we know what the justification is for a separate open category, why it is not just women and open? I can see that a separate open category could be quite isolating.

Surprised and delighted, particularly by how clear the margin on the vote was. I sort of feel like I should be sending Lia Thomas a thank you card.

The possibility of transition pre 12 does worry me. Not so much in the west, but in places, like Russia. They already had (have??) a state-sponsored doping programme; I could see them putting not quite good enough 10 year old boys onto blockers to try and make them into medal-winning 'women'. I'd like to see that exemption go. But, on balance, a good day.

Really great news. The before twelve thing might be relevant to some people with DSDs, for example if internal testes are removed before puberty. (I don't know if that is ever done though.)

Hu fucking ra !

😬😁

Well that is brilliant news!

Amazing news.

It’s also pretty clear in the FINA athlete survey that both men’s and women’s competitions should be restricted to birth sex, with an additional open category added for competition.

Yes, you're right Vest, World Rugby was first (although the risks of injury were higher and more obvious).

I think they did but then England Rugby decided that was transphobic and ignored all the potential threats to women and caved in to the trans extremists. I have heard that there are a small number of transwomen playing in women's rugby (not at elite level) with a number of young women wondering if they dare to complain before a woman gets killed or seriously injured.

I think (am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong) that World Rugby said an outright NO a while ago.

Wow, this is absolutely huge isn't it?

I think it is. It's not an absolute No, but pretty close.

Expect lots of toys thrown out of the pram!!

I'm not too worried about the tanner stage 2 stuff - the way I read it is that a boy would have to be on puberty blockers by tanner stage 2 or age 12 at the latest and then constantly keep T suppressed. There is no requirement for surgery.

My take on it is that it clearly defines when the onset of male puberty occurs and what would need to be shown as evidence of no male puberty advantages.

Just been racking my brains-is this in fact the first time the tin foil hat gang have been told to fuck off, no you cannot have what you want?

Haven't read the full thread, but what does "completed transition" by age 12 actually mean? And is there a possibility this is going to mean people (parents) push for earlier medical interventions on gender non conforming children?

This is fantastic. The published document and policy was brilliantly and carefully written and should serve as a template for other, more timid, sporting organisations.

I'm not too worried about the tanner stage 2 stuff - the way I read it is that a boy would have to be on puberty blockers by tanner stage 2 or age 12 at the latest and then constantly keep T suppressed. There is no requirement for surgery.

Given the light that is being shone on puberty blockers and the Dutch protocol generally one would hope that this practice ceases anyway.

Sharron Davies was brilliant on 5 live sport (piece starts at 36 mins in).