Fina stops transgender swimmers from competing in women's elite events

But being a woman is a stable and quantifiable category with an obvious need for a separate category. Being transgender is not a stable category or easy to quantify, and their is no obvious demand for the open category to exist in sport or the need for it (especially if there is no requirement for testosterone reduction of men/males competing - and it would be deeply unethical, surely to creat a category specifically for transpeople and then oblige them to medicalise their transition in order to participate). It is difficult to see how it ever could be justified. Having said that, if the current ideological grip continues maybe there will be a sizeable group of people with a gender identify to form the category, but any that did medicalise would be at a huge disadvantage.

‘Won't this bonkers ruling lead to more damaged, puberty-blocked children, created by dodgy countries in order to win medals?’

I think they’re just saying anyone who has started male puberty has advantage, so in order to compete without advantage they would need to have transitioned by 12. They’re not saying ‘Please transition by 12’. Those days (puberty blockers) are running out anyway.

This is great news. I hope cycling follows suit.

And I hope the Open category takes off. More people participating in sport, and the category can be totally welcoming to trans/DSD athletes. While women get fair competition.

I don't think a pre puberty Male who has transitioned would beat a fully formed adult human female.

I don't get this ruling, if the BBC article is correct. It says that males will be eligible for the female category if they have not passed Tanner stage 2 of puberty.
But why include them?? They are still males. They do not have our biology, they will never have our pelvic angle, our women's lung capacity etc. Castrated males are still not females.

Won't this bonkers ruling lead to more damaged, puberty-blocked children, created by dodgy countries in order to win medals?

Is the BBC reporting the ruling correctly?

ClaryFairchild

thanks clary

And well done Cate Campbell! You bewdy!

I just came to post that!
If that link doesn't work try this one

www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-20/cate-campbell-speaks-to-fina-ahead-of-transgender-athlete-call/101166396

This is an Australian news article which I thought was relevant to this discussion.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-20/cate-campbell-speaks-to-fina-ahead-of-transgender-athlete-call/101166396]

Just a shame FIFA have shat on women.

But isn’t that how womens sport started? Small, hard fought for, with not much of a talent pipeline and no money? This open category will get a much bigger start than that.

I suspect that's the way it would go NotBadConsidering, however, they can't then claim that they just want to play sport/compete if they do not take the opportunity to do so offered to them.

I'm not convinced that the spectating public will be particularly interested in watching.

We will never, ever see anyone in the proposed Open categories. Because females won’t have a chance against males so won’t bother, and males won’t be happy with the lack of validation.

Precisely. They are not ANY sort of woman.

It will be interesting to see their ideas around the 'Open' category.

Yep. If TW are not female in the pool, hat means they're not female in toilets, changing rooms, refuges, hospital wards and all the other places they've forced their unwanted muckle great bodies into either.
Hello, house of cards.

The sport thing is a real issue for TRAs - because its an area which is incredibly difficult to claim that transwomen are women. There are clear differences and they just cannot be denied. Even Emily Bridges claiming that they lowered their testosterone enough to compete and now has no advantage - just talking about the fact they have to artificially alter their body is acknowledging that they are not actually female, not even close.

And the problem is, once you concede that transwomen are not actually women in one aspect of policy, it makes it a hell of a lot harder to claim that they are women in another aspect. And the wheels start coming off.

But anything that is built upon a fundamental lie, which trans ideology is, will eventually start to crumble anyway.

this from Caitlyn Jenner

twitter.com/caitlyn_jenner/status/1538589672493879296?s=21&t=sqtv-THiSrPPsNOX6-wXPQ

@maeveiscurious

I think on an inclusivity b ask a you are correct however......

the problem is going to be having open or trans categories t elite global events e.g. Olympics. Will the Olympics be one and a half times longer dues to having to have an open category alongside women and men? Will open athletes be granted medals with the same inherent worth as their male and female counterparts?

if as is more realistic the open category is combined with the men will broadcasters call men's sport non-female sport? Will we hear BBC broadcasters cheerfully announce 'the women have brought home 5 golds and the 'others' 3?

I think inequality this ruling paves the way for true single sex.sport but possibly there needs to be a debate how trans swimmers like Lia compete with dignity in men's races by offering alternate changing rooms.

The differences between males and females go way beyond strength , speed and physical size- things like heart rate, lung capacity, body fat ratios, pelvic alignment, but also the non physical difference such as the availability of coaching, cultural attitudes to sport and decisions that females have to make when it comes to having children mean that you can't take a small, slight man and say he is the same as a tall, strong woman when it comes to sport.

It would only be a trans category in name though. In reality it would be a transwoman/ male NB and any other flavour of male who doesn't identify as such category.

Whatever sports try to do they still have biology to grapple with.

Actually I think these sports organisations are missing a trick, a trans category would be welcomed and fair for all the biological and trans sports people. It would bring more people into sport

Hopefully other sports will be paying attention - as Sharron Davies said on BBC Radio 5 live when the news broke, women cyclists are going to be feeling very aggrieved that the UCI didn't have the courage to make a similar decision when it changed its rules the other day.

They are now women

Well no. You can't change sex.

They are not women though. They are fully formed blokes with cocks and knackers but with a splash of lipstick and long hair. This is fantastic news - hopefully this will be the start of other sports calling out the naked emperors too.

I do hope they follow through with the Open category. Complete with special changing facilities etc, because females cannot be expected to change in front of recognised males who will be swimming in the open category. That would be terribly discriminatory, wouldn't it, forcing females to share with males?