Janice Turner on the Menopause Industry

Is the argument that women should take HRT for the sake of those around them? I honestly thought one of the joys of old age was being able to become a little less appeasing of those around you.

Are you being goady? Or do you really think this?

It's not about becoming 'less appeasing', and why women would need to worry about this at one stage of life above another puzzles me.

How can it be a life well lived to experienced such debilitating symptoms as that poster described her mum having? For both her & those she has relationships with - they matter too. On the radio programme I've mentioned, one woman talked about actually wanting to kill her husband - who she loved - such was the rage she felt due to peri menopause.

I didn't really want to do HRT. I don't have the typical symptoms. In fact I feel clearer headed and have been more successful at work. I used to get terrible PMT which I think had a profound impact on me.

But, I have osteopaenia and family history of osteoporosis and have arthritis with increasing pain. So, reluctantly I have started hrt. In the past few weeks I think but am not sure that pain has reduce. I hate the faff of the gel etc...

I do think there might be something in the article and have read similar and they resonate. But I do think each woman doesn't makes the decision lightly and they do what is necessary for themselves. Let's trust women to do that?

Where is this happening?

I'm in Ireland, and it isn't here anyway, in my experience.

And I'm really puzzled why you think if women are doing well on HT, there's any issue with them continuing.

I have hypothyroidism for example & I take levothyroxine. As long as my bloods remain in normal range, I will take it. It's not suggested that because I'm in normal range they consider reducing it or stopping it.

From my own perspective I'm reviewed every 6 months, then annually in relation to my HRT. Why do you think this isn't happening?

I'm a bit gobsmacked at this

As for my DM, who didn't want to go on the HRT available at that time (made from mare's piss), she was a nightmare to live with for a good 10 years. Thank God she had me when she was in her 20s and I'd already left home, because she was hell on wheels - critical, mean, short-tempered, furious, impatient. It can't have been much fun for her either and it was awful for those around her. Having lived through that I vowed never to put my family through my own menopause.

Is the argument that women should take HRT for the sake of those around them? I honestly thought one of the joys of old age was being able to become a little less appeasing of those around you.

As for the the "mare's piss" when I read about that it seemed to me to be one of the most inhumane practices I have ever heard of. Pregnant horses kept deliberately thirsty to extract their urine. Seriously - no symptom would allow me to buy into that. Not one.

I'm not sure where your concerns about 'over-medicating' come from with regard to HRT.

surely leaving women on medication permanently and not displaying any curiosity about what that might mean for them in the long term is not a good thing? feels as lazy as failing to show an interest in the symptoms in the first place, no?

It is equally as bad to over-medicate as it is to under-medicate.
I'm not sure where your concerns about 'over-medicating' come from with regard to HRT.

If women have symptoms, they should be prescribed HT, if they wish it, and it's not contraindicated.

There is no risk of over-medicating.

There is still a massive challenge for many women to be seen, and prescribed HT, and there is also the issue of availability of the medication.

More long term studies would be v welcomed and better access to info for women can make informed decisions.

Eg hrt protects against colon cancer.

There's also supposed to be a new medication coming out that breast cancer patients can take to help with many of the symptoms.

It’s not fury, it’s fear it will be taken away. Many women have had to fight long and hard, against misinformation and doctors who are out of date, to get the treatment they need.

in the same way as women take other women talking about how they gave birth, or how they chose to feed their babies as a criticism of their own choices, the anger on this thread over a woman wanting to have a conversation about HRT seems an extension of that.

While I do think the question of whether the menopause is being medicalised is interesting, in a way I'm more interested in why women perceive discussion as criticism (speaking as someone who wept when she stopped breast feeding her baby after 7 weeks and felt like a failure).

There seems to be fury at the suggestion that HRT may not be suitable for all. Why is that?

There can be unpleasant anger on these boards, fortunately only from a few

A recent thread showed this re questions re long term health. But I actually think some good info was posted in the end which is useful.

I would like a lot more evidence to back up areas of concern, some has happened but it seems to be contradictory and inconclusive.

I think if you have strong symptoms it can make sense (up to the individual to decide), I would do the same if I felt symptoms were bad - but without anything too bad it’s more a grey area

I'm also so very bloody tired of the old chestnut that women in older generations managed to cope without HRT, because it rides roughshod over so many variables, not least the fact that our physiology and our environment (which frequently overlap) have changed, and so medicine has had to change too.

It also fails to address the harms related to those women in previous generations who didn't have access to HRT. My granny suffered from osteoporosis. By the time she died age 92 she had a pronounced hump on her back, where her spine had collapsed and she had lost a good couple of inches in stature that she could ill afford to lose, as she was under 5ft tall to start with.

As for my DM, who didn't want to go on the HRT available at that time (made from mare's piss), she was a nightmare to live with for a good 10 years. Thank God she had me when she was in her 20s and I'd already left home, because she was hell on wheels - critical, mean, short-tempered, furious, impatient. It can't have been much fun for her either and it was awful for those around her. Having lived through that I vowed never to put my family through my own menopause.

To be fair, most of my aching did within 2 hours of the first patch. Other things took a little longer.

It may or may not (take time to settle). My symptoms improved almost immediately. I've spoken to many women who found the same.

There seems to be fury at the suggestion that HRT may not be suitable for all.

Where's the fury?

In terms of suitability, beyond a reasonably small group of women where HRT is contraindicated (breast cancer but not all breast cancers), if women have symptoms HRT is suitable.

They may not all choose to avail of it.

The dosages & products may need adjusting, as with any regimen.

Bit suitability is not an issue, where symptoms present.

That's very sensible. And no it's not for everyone. It does take time to settle though.

There's another area that's been woefully under researched; testosterone.

Low testosterone seems to be a factor for men with cfs and also fibromyalgia, treating with testosterone after testing appears to have significant impact on pain and fatigue. The symptoms some women mention are improved by testosterone are muscle pain, fatigue, brain fog etc, as well as libido. Both testosterone and oestrogen are anti inflammatory hormones.

I am getting fucking sick of this suddenly being the story of the week, no disrespect to you OP.

Yes some people sail through menopause and yay for them BUT some of us are struggling in all sorts of ways. I nearly lost my marriage and family. Why? Because I had undiagnosed ADHD and was unaware that perimenopause and indeed any hormone shifts have a huge impact on ADHD. It explained why I started getting PMDD in my late thirties which was gradually getting worse and worse. My inattention becomes dangerous in the week before my period. Dopamine and oestrogen interplay and I'm now lower on both.

HRT isn't about staying pretty and youthful for me. It's about my brain working and my body not needing to spend an extra 4 hours in bed for 8-10 days a month. Yes, sure, have conversations about it. But no more of this bollocks that we're all just silly or vain or just need CBT (Aussie docs have a vested interest there with their special Menopause CBT programme). We need to look at people holistically, not just as random hormone tests.

Many years ago the majority of women were dead before they reached menopause! DH’s great-grandmother was dead at 44 after having 16 children (15 lived) in 22 years, she died 3 months after giving birth to the youngest.

So of course menopause wasn’t a big problem for previous generations, most women only lived a short time after menopause - av life expectancy for a woman born in the 1910’s (my grandparents generation) was 55 and for my parents generation born in the 1940’s is late 60s so living with menopause for maybe 5-10 years.

Now most women experiencing the start of peri/menopause (born 70s/early 80s) have an av life expectancy of 75-ish, so potentially living with the effects of menopause for a good 20 years, probably longer.

Before long we’re going to be in a situation where women live half their lives in a post menopausal state and it’s outrageous that some people feel we should just have to put up and shut up. Of course not every woman will have severe symptoms and good luck to them, but some women will need help and as time goes by that number will only grow.

I didn't read it as backlash against HRT. I read it as permission to critique the assumption that women are not capable of being clear headed or capable without it - the example of the friend who wanted to come off and was advised not to. Surely this is what we want to see - an approach that stands up for women who need to treat symptoms, and equally respects those who choose not to.

The high £ figures stated for the market are interesting

How is that impacting the ways we are targeted, the lack of standardisation or evidence for some claims that are made, are we targeted on here by people with invested interests

I’m all for moving forward on this but would prefer research and proper NHS access

She's also not mentioned the impact of vaginal atrophy on mortality due to urgency and falls which kill due to osteoporosis.

She makes a few good points; how much can we trust the pharmaceutical industry?

However for me it's been cfs. Asthma. Reduced work hours. Not living a full life. Marriage on the line. Loss of hobbies I loved due to fatigue and confusion.

I thought I was too young so didn't seek help for a long time.

’Funny how this backlash against HRT happens as soon as women start to get vocal and demanding that our needs are met in the health service’

It’s amazing isn’t it?