Janice Turner on the Menopause Industry

If it is of interest I have found I am more snappy and irritable on HRT. Similar to PMT. So far the only benefits I notice are possible reduction in joint pain and better sleep and hopefully hidden benefits preventing osteoporosis. . Disbenefits are irritability and the faff. If it wasn't for osteoporosis I would not take it.

Im finding it incredible that you would try to put words into someones mouth but there you go.

my concern is will the medical profession be interested enough to do the studies to be able to give women the information they need to make an informed decision?

Yes, I think so. I trained as a health researcher. There are so many professional researchers and medical professionals (different roles, and only sometimes overlapping!) who really have a driving passion to know what works and what doesn't. Britain is a world leader in medical research - the NHS makes it possible for us to do really large scale research that is difficult to standardise elsewhere. There is a lot of interest in menopause currently, and every reason to think that we'll see some good research. In the UK much research is funded by non-profit institutions and the government, but research from pharmaceutical companies can also be useful as long as there is full disclosure and good practice is followed eg registering trials in advance with a commitment to publishing the findings no matter what they are.

I sort of get this. I would not take premarin, just no way. As I said above, the patches which were the only alternative made me that out of control rage filled woman. It wasn't some kind of liberating epiphany of non appeasement, it was pretty much out of my control, like the rage took me by the scruff of the neck snd shook me. Inwasn't nice to be around when the rage hit and it wasn't nice being me either. But enforced medication? Absolutely not!

Or diabetes, or heart disease or any number of issues that can kill without life long medication

I have always found this a very strange thing, this judgement of people who take medication. But of course what you'll find when you dig down into is they dont judge people with epilepsy/diabetes and what not but they will judge people for medicating illnesses that also come with some lifestyle supports for them

MH is a classic example of this. Yes lifestyle supports can aid recovery or management of symptoms, yes some MH issues can be short lived, or have remission phases but for some people and for some MH illness, some people will need life long medication and even then they may still suffer. Im sick of seeing comments along the lines of 'you should seek therapy' or equivalent, for many people they have had a wide range of therapies already throughout their lives and medication is just something they need to manage to live effectively

Tell that to someone with epilepsy.

This exactly. I went through it with nothing because the options were premarin which no way and patches that made me into bitch woman on speed. I got through, TBH after pms and period pain BY COMPARISON it was a walk in the park. I think though that being open about menopause, how it can be difficult for women that there are way more symptoms than hot flushes, should not be conflated with medication being the only solution or that women can only get through it if they have the special bedding/vitamins/ online coaching yadda yadda yadda. We are not poor suffering weak entities who cannot function without drugs, we are not a marketing target group. We will choose what we need whether that be medication or yoga. I do think that the warning against medicalisation or monetisation is valid. There is a very fine line between giving women the information about what is available and making them feel that its essential for everyone.

the behaviours described were "critical, mean, short-tempered, furious". I don't read that as anti-social or aggressive necessarily. From the point of view of the mother I would not have taken it either, because of the brutality of the production methodology of premarin.

@bellac11 are you making an argument for compulsory medication for women who are not nice? I am finding this incredible.

Are the risks from HRT higher than those from the pill?

I think the symptoms that poster described in her mother are not general aging, they are anti social, aggressive behaviours which need treatment. There is a massive difference between those two things

If we were talking about those behaviours in a man who could seek treatment but either refused to do so or there was a narrative that he should just be tolerated because he shouldnt be made to 'appease' others, there would quite rightly be outrage.

No, I wasn't being goady. The poster had said the mother didn't want it, but the implication was that she should have had it because she was difficult to live with. One of the things that I find concerning is an idea emerging that women are not able to age without being required to treat symptoms of ageing. Almost like there is a responsibility to take medication if it is available. I do think each to their own. I am not arguing against HRT, but against the assumption that it SHOULD be taken. There may be many reasons why a woman doesn't want to.

that sounds very, very difficult, and I too had no idea this was a thing. I'm just sorry the topical oestrogen isn't helping more

yes indeed, I'm very aware that everyone is different and no one size fits all

i do however think we should bear in mind that we live in a capitalist society, and if there's no interest in buying medication, there are no profits for drug companies.

people who take life long medication are ideal from the perspective of a pharmaceutical company.

The menopause (and we've used that word throughout this thread to mean the period in woman's life when menstruation ceases, so despite your kind correction, I will continue to use it in that way) is normal. In the article that kicked off this discussion, a woman was advised to effectively never go through it. If doctors are routinely giving this kind of advice, I find that concerning, and I'd like to understand what their basis for this is.

I havent read the article but to answer your point I would say 'because they are having problems getting hold of it'

I say 'they' , Im not really sure who 'they' are but there will be supply problems for a while I think and I would imagine views are going to be pushed forward to challenge the narrative that its needed. Theres been a lot of progress in terms of celebs and media letting women know about how necessary it can be for some, more openess about it, but that has led to a huge increase inn people asking for it and challening GPs who dont or wont provide it.

I dont take it but Im still learning about whether I need it, I know full well I wont get the help I need from my GP, they wont even test for peri menopause, I need to know for example what advantages and what delivery system or what levels I need, No GP is going to go through the effort of letting me know that. My worry is that the advantages it might bring, it might bring back my migraines which have significantly decreased during peri menopause

Anyway I digress, I think articles like this are designed to disparage the requests for it

i take topical oestrogen because I have vaginal atrophy caused by menopause. If I didn’t take it my vulva would itch constantly, my clitoris would shrivel, my vulval skin would thin, split & bleed & id be at very high risk of UTI & prolapse. I haven’t had sex since sept 2020 as even with topical oestrogen it’s impossible. However, I had no idea this was even a thing until it hit me 18 months ago so it seems to me that we’re still not talking about all aspects of the menopause anywhere near enough

the menopause is a transition from one state to another.

It isn't actually - the menopause refers specifically to a point one year after the last period.

It's not comparable to anti-depressants - although perhaps it is, on reflection. If ADs are warranted, due to symptomatic evidence, they can be taken. Some people will benefit from longitudinal use. Others less so - and that's because the symptoms of depression can or may be alleviated by various therapies.

The same can't be said of my need for levothyroxine. I need the medication, full stop.

Same with HT - the issues are caused by hormonal fluctuations or imbalance. Taking HT addresses this - for women with symptoms.

many people get stranded on anti depressants or pain killers.

there is extensive form among doctors for doing what is easy rather than what is right for people in the long term.

there's no one size fits all, but the menopause is a transition from one state to another. I can understand needing temporary medication to deal with the transition, but I can't understand skipping the transition altogether.

I’m probably where Bernard is, and would like more information re long term outcomes.

I don’t think that’s an odd thing to want

But I rarely take medication, and have low symptoms - I can see why others feel differently

It's not an attitude!

It's a fact - I need levothyroxine daily. There is no issue with me taking it for life - because I need it!

Other medications eg an abx will be needed for a short period eg until an infection clears, and it would not be advised to take it beyond that.

It's all about need - that's the fact.

Why is this such a concern of yours?

There's plenty of information available now, to equip women.

There's always more research being done - not necessarily by 'the medical profession', perhaps by pharma, or researchers.

That's how medical & other matters revolve. Life, in general in fact - research & evaluation of lived experience will lead to new recommendations.

Where do you get this idea from? If it's needed, it's needed. No issue.

I think you and I have very different attitudes to medication

I loathed hormonal contraception,

I did too, and had bad side effects

being on medication indefinitely is not generally a good thing, surely?

Where do you get this idea from? If it's needed, it's needed. No issue.

I do think each woman doesn't makes the decision lightly and they do what is necessary for themselves. Let's trust women to do that?

I couldn't agree more. my concern is will the medical profession be interested enough to do the studies to be able to give women the information they need to make an informed decision?

it's possible that it's my prejudices talking. I loathed hormonal contraception, felt it stopped me being me.

the idea of spending the rest of my life taking hormones generated from outside of me to deal with something normal also seems jarring.

being on medication indefinitely is not generally a good thing, surely?