Janice Turner on the Menopause Industry

Not Silly heads imagining however might suggest that none of it can be affected by how people think and approach it which appears also be incorrect

I know people hate that thought , I suspect partly because it's been used to dismiss women and partly because we feel ( incorrectly) guilt i - I am not saying it's all in the head , I am saying that how our brains and the rest of our bodies interact should not be excluded from any studies and solutions

I have gone off the balance website.

I don't like that you pay for exclusive access etc.

I will say that just about every free podcast Newson has been on they've discussed diet

• I also totally agree it can (and has)been monitized. That doesn't mean that us silly heads have imagined it though.

It's real. It has ALSO been commodified*

👆🏽This

Yes diet is certainly helpful. I found the xx brain really good. not least as she said 70% chocolate and red wine are healthy!

Supplements I would say are part of the medicalisation - which is clearly targeting women

Whereas diet advice is free

If you go into boots the supplement marketing is v much female orientated. Is it another pink tax?

Jewel no it's not the be all and end all. I'm having issues but I now know I'm much worse than I thought - could be covid though which they think can affect things for up to 6 mo.

I'm doing diet and exercise alongside it.

What's frustrating about hrt is that it takes 3 months to fully assess and then tweak and then another 3 months. And then some seem to need testosterone and others don't get on with it. I'm not there yet and it's been 8 months. It can take 6 months for testosterone to work in some.

But the key is none of us are the same. We are all individuals and as such should be able to make decisions based on the best available trusted information.

I don't trust the supplement industry either! Though I do take a few, b vits and magnesium (there is evidence for mag.)

I can recommend menopause matters forum.

Inamuddle, I don't think they're incentivised, I know they are.

Gps also have woeful education on peri and meno. A large number of universities don't include it on their syllabus.

I'd say the pharmecutical industry hasnt been driving this as they've clearly been extremely unprepared - stock is once again a massive issue at the moment. The ssp isn't really helping from my pov; it's getting worse.

We are all entitled to opinions and big pharma has been an issue in the past. Women get especially fucked over and we are wary.

Luckily NICE operates on evidence and we are lucky to have the British menopause society. They have a lot of the evidence on fact sheets and regularly update.

The Oestrogen matters book is mostly about what happened with a particular (flawed) study into hrt which made women abandon it in the 90s, and what was misinterpreted, what they didn't look at and include etc. makes good points around things like the study of female dementia which only began in the 80s (possibly 90s?).

So much information missing. Women clearly struggling.

I interpret the phrase "make menopause history" as let's not have women unnecessarily suffering and spending a fortune on supplements - given some really don't have any symptoms.

Why is it the alternative herbal offer is not being seen in the same light - monetised?

I am more than willing to accept that hrt is making money for someone but so is the vitamin and herbal business. And no doubt the diet industry is also cashing in..

I am early days on HRT but not really a fan. I am currently dealing with breakthrough bleeding which I really could do without. I do see some benefits - joint pain is reduced ( ithink) and I am sleeping better but no discernible improvement in mood.

For some women it seems miraculous and I trust their judgement to make decisions for themselves. For some women the alternative pills work and likewise I trust their judgement to use these alternatives.

I may well stop taking HRT but will give it a few more months. I have extremely dry eyes which I was hoping it might help and it might have but not much. I tell you if it helps this it will be miraculous for me cos it is quite debilitating. I have spent a fortune on eyedrops and alternative pills and diet change to address this issue with little or no impact.

WarriorN — if you think doctors are incentivised to offer anti-depressants, what do you think is driving the rather sudden promotion of HRT? I think it is highly likely the pharmaceutical industry is behind much of the promotion of HRT (and suspect possibly also behind some promotion of puberty blockers). Where there is money to be had …. There is no shortage of people to take up the opportunity.
And, for doctors, much easier to say “here’s a prescription for HRT” then to invest time to help women manage symptoms.
“A pill for every ill” is the easy way to practice medicine and the easy way for pharmacy and their shareholders to make money.

But a man who struggles and goes to the doctors rather than rely on commercial offering may well get diet advice - high sugar leads to a droop - it's just you aren't aware of it happening perhaps ?

Address the cause not the symptoms

I do reflect on the fact that men don't get all these herbs flung at them as alternatives to viagra.

They're not told to accept it as a normal life stage.

Yes there may well be a lack of balance - some women just aren't affected by menopause. At the same time the industry isn't just pharmaceutical.

That interesting embarrassing- my mum apparently has great bones and has always eaten lots of herbs and prunes! And hiked. Apparently boron is good too which I know prunes have.

It's so hard to work out which symptom is due to what of course.

The feeling of being fobbed off comes from the fact that antidepressants have been vastly over prescribed and advised over hrt for women struggling. Gp surgeries are given incentives (we're?) to prescribe anti ds. I get the annoyance, same happened to me before eventually being diagnosed with hypothyroidism. (By which time I was v ill and addicted to the pills.)

they could definitely help some women; my experience on them years ago was better sleep which does help with a lot, but it wore off as I actually needed both more thyroxine and I now know oestrogen. They won't give other added benefits though.

I found hrt to be antidepressant like, including some early side effects such as crazy dreams and early waking in the first couple of weeks. After which it was great for sleep (till I needed more.)

Paroxetine apparently does work very effectively for hot flushes for those who can't take hrt.

That is a very helpful overview of the BEST study and the recommended exercises.

lauvemetcalfe.com/uploads/icaa-best-article.pdf

I recommend watching this video, taking the principles, borrowing the workbook if you can, and finding a trainer who can support this (not straightforward). Well researched programme. NB: I would always recommend talking about the calcium supplementation with someone knowledgeable as I think it needs careful nuance in the context of someone's personal and family medical history.

On a general point, may I chip in with the (researched) Scarborough Fair diet protocol for those who are interested?

Bone resorption inhibiting properties have been ascribed to a limited range of common fruit, vegetables and herbs. These include the herbs dill, sage, garlic, parsley, thyme and rosemary. Vegetables and fruit with BRIPs include tomatoes, green beans, cucumber, broccoli, lettuce, prunes and oranges [28]. The minimum effective dosage of fruit/vegetables and herbs (F/V/H) with BRIPs calculated in the animal model is 170 mg/day. This corresponds with 6.2 grams of fresh F/V/H per kilogram human body weight. This amount is equivalent to 3–5 servings /day [35] of any F/V with BRIPs for a 60–70 kilo woman. Culinary herb servings were to be additional and usual culinary measures in meals were advised to all intervention participants (2–3 cloves garlic, 0.5-1 teaspoon for dried/fresh culinary herbs and up to 0.25 cup of parsley (Group B-BRIPS) and basil (Group A- non-BRIPS). The effect on bone resorption of the foods with BRIPs is said to be additive [39]. Vitamin K is also known to affect bone

Gunn, C.A., Weber, J.L. & Kruger, M.C. Midlife women, bone health, vegetables, herbs and fruit study. The Scarborough Fair study protocol. BMC Public Health 13, 23 (2013). doi.org/10.1186/1471-2458-13-23

www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2458/13/23

Make Menopause history is off to me as a tagline - I am rather glad to be post menopause- and menopause wasn't a trial for me

Most women live most of their lives in a none fertile state - it's the fertile years that are unusual in that regard - why prolong the misery