What does living authentically mean?

I'm struggling to work out how a man using women's toilets proves that they are a woman or that the think they are a woman.

The idea that you can be 'authentic' is premised on the idea that everyone has a OneTrueSelf which somehow determines what they are or what they should do. Almost every Disney movie and fridge magnet and cod philosophy promotes this idea.

But as someone said upthread, it is not true. People do not have OneTrueSelf and they can't solve their problems by finding that OneTrueSelf in a moment or revelation. Everyone has multiple selves in different contexts - daughter- mother- aunt - teacher- professor- friend - boss etc. and different aspects of these come to the fore in different contexts. So it doesn't make sense to say you must be authentic to your self when your self doesn't exist.

And that means that I find people who talk about finding their 'authentic self' are probably being less authentic and are searching for an illusion.

(In other contexts, be authentic is used to just mean be good and kind etc. no one stands up to say "I'm authentically mean and selfish and you should respect me for it")

It's a phrase that immediately makes me think "self-absorbed, immature, over-analysing, attention-seeking, twat" to be honest, especially when it's said over social media. I suppose it means not pretending to be something you're not, which is good, but why can't they just STFU about it rather than spout the "I have to be true to myself/live authentically/see myself looking back at me in the mirror" bollocks. So MeMeMe! nice to get that off my chest at last

I feel that "authentic" isn't really appropriate for describing people. It seems a little dehumanising to me. Humans can't be exactly what they claim to be or seem to be, because they're so complex (in terms of psychology, personal experience, emotions, relationships, background, etc.) that any adequate description would take far too long and be somewhat contradictory anyway. Authenticity is for things, not people.

Isn't it just being a twat that everyone laughs at behind their back?

Reading with intrigue

A few decades ago I was sitting in a student flat listening to young middle class english men talking about fascism and saving the planet and them smoking pot and how authentic they all were. Then one got out a guitar and sang Oh Danny Boy very earnestly and solemnly with an Irish accent. The others nodding along in solidarity, stoned, suddenly breaking out in Irish accents at the chorus. Still can’t hear that song without a laugh.

And there you have it, your authentic answer. Not fridge magnet material, but real. You’re welcome

I thought it was a good answer. Its a rebellious position to take under capitalism, since it depends entirely on your inner self and not any kind of ornamentation you can purchase.

Erm, no. Just trying to go through life without being a duplicitous prick. I’m not saying I’m all sweetness and light, I can be a right grumpy cow and if I don’t like someone or don’t want to do something I won’t do it, but I try to be upfront about it instead of letting people think they’re getting a different person entirely. I’ve seen lots of examples of humans who put across a soft, fluffy, “be kind” type persona, when they’re the nastiest most twisted people deep down/or in private. Just stand by your bullshit, recognise it, own it, and try to fix it, if it comes from something that can be fixed, which almost everything can with enough self reflection and the right tools.

In the arts world it means "real."

Is it an authentic Turner?

Is the jewellery authentic.

To skip through arts council hoops in education, you try to give authenticity to school projects- eg exhibit work in a gallery.

For people it seems to be "wearing or doing what I like."

That must be a big fridge magnet you got that from

I could have possibly answered this right up until the birth of my first child. My experiences (by no means all negative) have shattered any previous sense of authentic identity I had.

I learned that my identity matters shit to a baby that needs caring for or a loved on that is dying.

My identity matters shit to my employer who constantly favoured my male counterpart and then wondered why I struggled. I learned I am replaceable, preferably by a non gestating type of human.

It hurt to lose my sense of identity but perhaps there is freedom to be found here too? I think it is far better to invest energy into the present moment, the people you choose to spend your time with. I'd rather be judged for the actions I take than the proclamations about my personality. For a start, I'm really not that interesting!

To me, living authentically means being at peace with myself and how I treat other people and interact with the world. Integrity, fairness and honesty about who I am, not trying to lead anyone to believe that I’m something I’m not. Not taking from anyone that I wouldn’t have given the same time/money/effort to myself. Just being real about who I am and what I’m about. Making decisions and going about my life in ways that wouldn’t be uncomfortable/cringe to have relayed back to me in 5 years, 10 years, 50 years time. Being able to stand by my current self and her decisions/behaviour no matter what stage of life I’m at in future.

Living authentically means wearing lots of makeup, having thousands of pounds of surgery and synthetic hormones pumped into your body.

It's like being a lesbian who feels that she has to refer to her partner rather than her girlfriend.

I think I would rather aim for originality. I think I can work that out whereas authentic needs a template to compare with. Simple example:
DH likes classic cars, he judges a rebuild or renovation on use of original parts. Not modern copies, Stainless steel as built not chrome.
Friends are converting a caravan. It will look from the outside as a 1965 model but it will have modern furniture, plumbing and insulation. It their design and therefore original.
A young cousin spends hours on social media, and keeps trying to copy celeb styles.
The contestants on Sewing Bee did original work. It was authentically theirs.

Have I just argued myself in a circle? 😀

I think today it mostly means to pretend to be something you are not and force everyone else to go along with your fantasy as well.

"I’m trying to not say anything that would get this thread deleted, but it seems this obsession with gender is so terribly inward looking, and something most women just don’t actually have any time for. Or do I have it all wrong?"

Have to agree. The reason though is different versus a trans person. For yourself, and most of the population, they never question their gender, as something inside is not in conflict. So its not something you would expect to self examine in great detail. This is very different for trans people - the internal/external gender conflict causes intense examination, and therefore self focus to try and resolve what feels authentic to them - how they can live their best life.

From what I have seen, very few trans peeps have an option but to explore their gender conflict and find what feels authentic. To not do so, keeps that feeling of dysphoria keeping coming back.

Authentic also is important in a clinical sense. The real life experience that trans people need to go through to access medical care and be taken seriously, often means clinicians taking a look at whether they are living true to their internal needs, and then whether medical intervention is appropriate. RLE requires exactly that - to use the facilities in alignment with one's expressed authentic gender.

Most non trans people don't get it - as they have never had to deal with a conflict between body presentation and how they feel inside. Once you know and interact with trans people you can get a good feel for it - but never know it in its true sense of course.

I like this.

In my youth I played guitar in various (amateur/ semi pro) rock and roll bands. I spent ages trying to get an "authentic" acoustic sound on stage. Unsuccessfully. I eventually realised that what I was doing was silly. The acoustic guitar is a chamber instrument, and not really designed for loud public performances. "Authenticity" is the last thing you should look for. Sounding good is a much better aim.

Authenticity as "not pretending" is great. But authenticity as a refusal to compromise with reality is a pigheaded self indulgence.

Surely it’s better to consider what we DO, how we affect the people around us and what we can bring to the world, than just who we ARE.

"We are what we repeatedly do." - Aristotle

When I first thought about actually how much time I spent on various activities it revealed to me the reality of what I did was quite far from the somewhat idealized independent and free-spirited self I imagined myself to be. Aristotle follows up by saying we should be cultivating the habits of excellence. For myself, realizing my irredeemable flaws, I've followed the more realistic path of trying to cultivate "better" thoughts and habits.

I think it will mean different things to different people depending on their age and experiences.

I am actively trying to “discover” my authentic self. I have been married for a very long time to someone who really just wanted me to be another version of him. It seems normal that in a marriage you could just be yourself, but not so.
So instead of saying, can we have a smallish dinner party instead of a great big party, because I don’t like small talk, and circulating amongst near strangers - you suck it up and smile. Then you are told “see you enjoyed it really, I knew you would”. And you can’t say actually no I didn’t, but I was doing my best.

Then apply that to mostly everything, and you become the fakest person you know. So being authentic for me is setting boundaries, and actually being proud of my simple introverted self.

Well, making authentic jazz or blues is a reasonable aim... but I'd be more impressed by a musician who writes great songs in a style that no-one has heard before. One musician might be an authentic 1950s style blues musician, another musician might see their music as authentic because it has that 1950s blues honesty, whilst also being 100% new and what the musician wants to do.

Surely we can all agree that an authentic cheesecake is a wonderful thing, even if the recipe is old?

But yeah, good point. I hadn't relly made the connection. A TW is authentically a woman in the way that an 18 year old is an authentic 1950s blues artist - doing the things you need to do, showing the things you need to show, to "prove" that you fit in the box marked "50s style blues" or "woman" despite being definitively not a 1950s musician nor a woman. An entirely reasonable take on authenticity, but not anywhere near the more honest and personal authenticity that comes from an 18 year old musician trying to find their own unique voice, or a feminine man actually "expanding the bandwidth of what it means to be a man" (rather than pretending that they can expand the bandwidth of what it is to be a woman).

For what it's worth with music (art, not real) my view is that authenticity is meaningless. All that matters for people who like authenticity is that the music comes across as authentic. It would smewhat spoil Nirvana to find out that Cobain was actually a trust fund kid with good mental health who was happy as larry in his personal life and was actually murdered not a suicide victim. But on the other hand it wouldn't detract from the power of the songs to get across emotions and appear authentic.

But with people not making art I want personal authenticity. I want people who are true to themselves and others, people who don;t lie to themselves about what they are and then try to convince others of the lie.

It assumes that there exists a coherent unitary true Self deep down inside all of us, if only we could access it and live by it. Which is self-regarding nonsense. We all have many aspects of self - one for work, one for our parents, one for our most intimate relationships etc. Some are wise and adult, some are damaged, some are vulnerable and childlike. And so on.