What does living authentically mean?

Well I suppose then, TW would see themselves as having spent their lives pretending to be men, and want to now live authentically as women. But without a definition of ‘woman’ (and I’ve never seen a definition except for the blindingly obvious adult human female), then what does that even mean?

This is the heart of the issue for me. You can't make 'living authentically as women' definable. To use one kind of 'marker' of sex as an example, I have short hair that I don't blow-dry/style. I don't wear make-up. I never wear heels. I'm almost never seen in a skirt or dress. In those senses I 'look' more like a man (as our society sees it). But I'm unarguably a woman. I cannot live 'authentically' or 'unauthentically' as a woman. I just am one.

A trans-identifying man can obviously wear a dress if he wants to, wear make-up and heels. But he won't be a woman.

Clothes, cosmetics etc are gendered, not sexed.

@JustWaking that's my experience with the trans men and women, non binary and just plain old 'people" I know. Well, the ones which never went looking for their authentic selves and 'settled' for being comfortable in their own skin.

Who I am is who I am. My differences define me but do not set me apart.

For males - doing what you want and nobody standing in your way.

For females - shut the fuck up and don't get in their way else they will get you sacked.

Is my understanding.

Excellent post justwalking

That is not incongruent with what I learned from transwomen at university and sums up what a lot of trans people I follow on twitter seem to think.

The fact that this isn't what this current iteration of trans ideology is asking for tells us quite a lot about who is accepting and pushing these ideas. For example, it suits a lot of organisations to adopt trans ideology because it doesn't trouble their male centric status quo and it is cheap to stick all gender signs on female loos.

I think this question actually shows how transphobic gender ideology is. Why do they insist that a transwoman is a woman? It's not an insult to say that a transwoman is a transwoman, and that's different to a woman! You would only think that's an insult if you look down on trans people

Surely to live authentically as a trans person would be to fully accept that one is trans.
Ie

• accepting that you are biologically <whichever sex you actually are>
• recognising with self-compassion any challenges you face such as gender dysphoria, AGP, ASD, <whatever>
• valuing your own interests and personality, without reference to gender norms
• not accepting illegal discrimination
• recognising that you are not the same as someone with the opposite biological sex to you, even if you would like to be
• thinking about how your actions impact on others (eg in the use of single sex spaces, asking people to use different pronouns) and balancing your desires against the impact on other people
• campaigning for things which will make your life better without disproportionately making life worse for other groups in society (eg third gender-neutral spaces, rather than removing women's SS spaces)

'Living authentically' means being selfish, having no care as to how your behaviour impacts on others, expecting others to affirm whatever you want to believe about yourself and disregarding any boundaries anyone or society may put in place however reasonable or safeguarding those boundaries are. It is an excuse for any and all behaviour - you must not criticise me because I am living authentically. I am doing exactly what I want and you can't stop me.

The most useful thing related to it is something like know yourself, I think. Don't lie to yourself. Try to see yourself clearly.

But a lot of times it's an excuse for self-indulgence of one kind or another.

I always wonder, how did a person live authentically when we were in gaves, digging up roots or chasing antelope?

One of the things I find interesting about a lot of modern pseudo-psychology like this is it seems to say the opposite of what all the major spiritual traditions tell us, which is something like, we need to trancend the self, or the ego, that striving to assert ourselves or be validated is not will give us a good life.

It typically means doing whatever you can to avoid a certain key truth about yourself.

The truth never needs to declare itself, therefore "living authentically" is redundant as a descriptive phrase.

I'm afraid you've lost me… if she spent longer than anyone else giving her answer and/or gave inappropriately personal detail, then fair enough, but in themselves, anime and cosplay are harmless, ordinary hobbies, no more intrinsically inappropriate than saying that you like watching historical dramas and sometimes do historical reenactment. What are people expected to say when asked this question?

I think others would have paused. Unfortunately and probably due to her disability, this person gave too many details. We like to pretend we live in a society where no one judges anyone else, but the real world doesn't work like that. Pretending that it does and that this is helpful to people with disabilities is a cruel con trick in my view.

You've said it better than I could. This is authenticity, to me. It's what I strive to do.

I remember a young, new starter who was neurodiverse declaring that she was into anime and cosplaying in her "tell me something interesting about yourself" introduction.

What's wrong with this? Surely it's no different to sharing that you're into any other hobby like model railways or origami or sugarcraft. What kind of things are people meant to say in response to that question?

Not seeking external validation / knowing yourself. Not giving yourself to others all the time. Knowing how to say ‘No’. Authenticity is a big piece in psychotherapy. It can be connected to letting go of generational trauma, living in the here and now. Etc etc

Not looking to de-rail the thread at all - also: this is not about me, but: I shall use myself as an example, still:

I suppose one could say I was "authentically living as" an upper-MC corporate executive these days. I suppose I even "pass": I have the house and the car to go with the title. My hair and face are always nicely done - but in a "definitely not TOWIE" kind of way. I have the frequent flyer status and hotel loyalty scheme ranks that befit anyone of my status. When at a restaurant, I know which wine to order and how to make small talk about it. I read the business press and am always well informed about economic affairs from the point of view of a "gazillion dollar corporation". I look the part. I meet my business partners at the local golf club on a weekend sometimes.

And yet, I was born working-class, grew up on a rather rough estate. In my personal life, I prefer a pint over some fancy vintage. And on a weekend, I wear jeans from the high-street and my hair in a pony tail. I personally believe it's fundamentally wrong that some people - especially my own bosses, but even myself - make obscene amounts of money for ... basically: still a mystery to me what I actually do! The only reason why I moved out of my last place was because I realised my colleagues would be utterly terrified to come to my neighbourhood, and "entertaining" was expected.

Why I'm bringing this up: in some ways, I guess, I'm not that different from someone "authentically living as" female but having been born and brought up male. Or vice versa. Somewhat snarkily, I suppose I could be considered "trans class". I "pass" usually - but then, there are always these little moments that remind me I am not quite the same. When my (all very toff) colleagues speak about their childhood and refer to their parents as "mama" and "papa", for instance. When people, in genuine exasperation, bitch about the complications of inheritance, and I find myself thinking "yeah, sounds ... not fun. Never going to happen to me though, so, all good!"

Personal opinion: if you can't even properly "transition" in terms of such an obviously human made thing such as social class, I doubt that "authentically living as" something as fundamental as actually biologically different could work much better!

While I agree that's a correct definition I find that it's a concept often used by people who are naive or lack critical thinking. HR departments.

Being able to be open about for example your sexuality is important and no decent person wants to see a return to times when people had to pretend. That said, people must also be allowed to be open when it's right for them, and for some people that can be complicated. Your workplace might be diverse, but if your family or community are more conservative it may be more challenging to be out.

We also all of us pretend some of the time to be people we're not. Whether that's putting on a smile with your nurses uniform because patients don't need to know about your worries, or managing your introversion to give a competent presentation even though you will be exhausted later on, acting in role is a part of many jobs.

I also really worry about people misinterpreting it as a concept. I remember a young, new starter who was neurodiverse declaring that she was into anime and cosplaying in her "tell me something interesting about yourself" introduction. Just as we all pretend, most of us also don't share our whole selves at work. For good reasons.

Dahlly

For gender identity, It seemed to be a uncomfortable fit in some ways, and yet a good fit in others.

ah that’s interesting

Or a Transman having children?
Surely that's a huge dysphoria trigger, yet apparently not, though calling them the mother is <confused>
Stop the world, I want to get off.

Ultimately I think that the fact that, depending who you ask, you might get any one of the following responses, suggests "living authentically" is meaningless above everything else:

• Not surgically or chemically changing your body to conform to societal expectations
• Not buying into the trappings of late capitalism
• Not being swayed by groupthink
• Following your interests
• Discovering your heritage
• Recognising and being at peace with your neurodiversity
• Surgically or chemically changing your body to conform to societal expectations

Dahlly

No. I didn’t. They were banned in the end I think, in a typical flame out of frustration that women would not agree with them, a transitioned male.

Really? Are you wondering if I’m that poster?

I have always wondered how identity politics fits in with her views of the individual. That’s it’s self above all others, regardless of the consequences. I know the old dot.com pioneers championed her back in the 90s, wonder if it’s made a come back in some groups

There's something about honesty, but it isn't straightforward. I've never worried about what I put on social media (in terms of photos of me drunk, smoking pot etc) because I don't do that stuff. There's no dirt on me to dig up to embarrass me with when I'm the president! Haha.
That said, I don't spill my misery guts all over social media when I'm having a bad day, either.

We hide a lot of ourselves in public in order to be polite. If you park like a pillock, I'm not going to tell you. If I hate your hair, I won't tell you unless you really press me!

I don't think airing your rudest, innermost thoughts makes you authentic.

I have been very unhappy in the past because I was at the mercy of two contradictory internal voices. Authenticity for me has been about reconciling them.

There is nothing authentic about trying to look like someone else.

I've heard this before - that "non trans" people never question their gender. My colleague, who is non-binary, finds this bizarre, as they have seen many, many female people spend a great deal of their lives thinking about gender. I've been questioning lots and lots of things about mine for years, but the questions never get answered when I ask for anything more specific than nice soundbites.

It's actually borderline offensive imo to repeatedly insist that the people most disadvantaged by gender never question it. Tone-deaf and patronising at best.

Good answer... one might argue that one's authenticity is inverse proportion to how much time you spend talking about and promoting the idea of yourself being authentic

We once had a poster who was very fond of posting Ayn Rand to support their arguments.

It was well… enlightening, I must say.