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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Survey at work

36 replies

IamAporcupine · 14/06/2022 12:10

We've been asked at work to fill in a survey aiming to evaluate how well hybrid working has worked and to see if it will be continued.

The first few questions were, as you'd expect, 'do you WFH/office/hybrid', 'how many days each', then something like 'how does your working pattern affect your productivity/environment/communication/inclusion (?)/ management/wellbeing/overall 'satisfaction'. Do you work full-time/part-time, type of job and and grade. All fine.

One question re caring/parental responsabilities.
One question re disability (phrased as 'do you identify as disabled?')

Then:
sex (3 options, including prefer not to say)
gender identity (5 options, including prefer not to say)
sexuality (9 options, including prefer not to say)
religion (if yes, 8 options)
ethnicity (19 options, including prefer not to say)

and...
"Are you trans or have a history of trans?"
(3 options, including prefer not to say)
(what does 'history of trans' even mean? I doubt they mean detransitioners....)

Why, oh why?
It is irrelevant and a waste of time for everyone involved.
How are they planning to analyse the results? "Black homosexuals work better from home but non-binary Christians with a history of trans prefer to come to the office'?

Also, what is wrong with 'do you have a disability'?
And, why am I asked if I have a religion, but I am assumed to have a gender identity?

It really irritates me.
Was tempted to post in AIBU

OP posts:
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MagpiePi · 15/06/2022 21:07

That is a really interesting angle @SpringBadger

IamAporcupine · 14/06/2022 22:22

NoToLandfill · 14/06/2022 22:09

OP read the organisation maternity policy. If the word mother has been replaced repeatedly by the phrase 'birthing partner' then that's a cast iron guarantee you've been stonewalled.

Clearly as a pressure group they are very successful. What I don't understand is why they have been so successful. How come the Fawcett Society isn't listened to, when they represent half the entire population.

Thanks, I've just checked this and the word mother is still there!

OP posts:
NoToLandfill · 14/06/2022 22:09

OP read the organisation maternity policy. If the word mother has been replaced repeatedly by the phrase 'birthing partner' then that's a cast iron guarantee you've been stonewalled.

Clearly as a pressure group they are very successful. What I don't understand is why they have been so successful. How come the Fawcett Society isn't listened to, when they represent half the entire population.

IamAporcupine · 14/06/2022 21:58

NoToLandfill · 14/06/2022 21:54

Hi definitely not academia. Wonder if it's stonewall recommended language. My company is definitely stonewalled

My work is too, but I had not seen it in action until recently (or I didn't realise...)

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NoToLandfill · 14/06/2022 21:54

Hi definitely not academia. Wonder if it's stonewall recommended language. My company is definitely stonewalled

IamAporcupine · 14/06/2022 21:44

@NoToLandfill
Sounds suspiciously similar to a survey I did at my work.
Either we work for for same company. Or the HR departments have been infiltrated and brainwashed/ briefed on what to put in these questionnaires.

Oh that's interesting - academia?

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DisappearingGirl · 14/06/2022 21:07

How are they planning to analyse the results? "Black homosexuals work better from home but non-binary Christians with a history of trans prefer to come to the office'?

😂😂😂

NoToLandfill · 14/06/2022 20:21

Sounds suspiciously similar to a survey I did at my work.
Either we work for for same company. Or the HR departments have been infiltrated and brainwashed/ briefed on what to put in these questionnaires.

I think the young women working in HR genuinely think they are being nice and kind with all this.

Engage your brain though and you see through the utter bullshit.

SpringBadger · 14/06/2022 20:17

"Identify as", the more I think about it, is a strange turn of phrase. Perhaps I am stating the obvious, but historically "identity" has meant more about how a person is recognised by others. "He's the tall blonde one on reception; she's the lady at number 38; he's called John Smith; she belongs to the same religion as us; the burglar's identity is unknown". It feels like the meaning has been inverted to mean the way a person would like to see themselves, whether or not anyone else sees it or needs to know it. "Without identity, you're just a corpse", if you will.

Why not "I see myself as"? That way people can express themselves without the implication that this should override the perceptions of others or objective facts.

Anyway, to answer the actual question, those questions do all feel like overkill. If your company has no plan for how they will use the data (beyond just mulling it over), they are on thin ice really, since there is special category data in there which could be linked to an individual even when summarised (e.g. the black lesbian who only WFH on Thursdays).

IlonaRN · 14/06/2022 19:56

A better question on disabilities would be: do you consider yourself to have a disability according to the disability discrimination act?

I am hard-of-hearing. I don't "identify as disabled", but I my disability does fall under the DDA, so I would answer "yes" to that question. It can be followed by a question about the disability, if someone wants to answer.

Discovereads · 14/06/2022 17:08

GCRich · 14/06/2022 16:44

Are people who are disabled but refuse to see themselves as disabled still entitled to benefits for disabled people or adjustments at work for disabled people?

Do you think that people who do identify as disabled but aren't should get benefits for disabled people? Should companies be forced to ake adjustments for healthy-bodied people as if they had the disability that they claim to have?

People with disability/disabilities are always entitled to workplace accommodations for their disability/disabilities. They don’t have to identify themselves as being “disabled” to be entitled.

People with disability/disabilities may also be entitled to certain disability benefits, depending on how the disability/disabilities affect their day to day living. They dont have to identify as “disabled” to be entitled.

Do you think that people who do identify as disabled but aren't should get benefits for disabled people? Benefits are linked to how the persons disability/disabilities affect their day to day living. They aren’t linked to whether or not they consider themself to be disabled.

Should companies be forced to ake adjustments for healthy-bodied people as if they had the disability that they claim to have? There’s no adjustment for an abled person that identifies themselves as “disabled” because adjustments are linked to disabilities. If a person claims to have a disability, once they have been referred by a GP for assessment at that point they are entitled to adjustments even if they do not yet have an official diagnosis.

GCRich · 14/06/2022 16:44

Discovereads · 14/06/2022 15:32

The “identify as disabled” is standard.
Its because not everyone with a disability or disabilities views themselves as disabled. The predominant view is you are disabled if you cannot work and live on disability benefits. Around half of people with diagnosed disabilities can and do work, and most of them do not view themselves as disabled.

Are people who are disabled but refuse to see themselves as disabled still entitled to benefits for disabled people or adjustments at work for disabled people?

Do you think that people who do identify as disabled but aren't should get benefits for disabled people? Should companies be forced to ake adjustments for healthy-bodied people as if they had the disability that they claim to have?

Discovereads · 14/06/2022 15:32

The “identify as disabled” is standard.
Its because not everyone with a disability or disabilities views themselves as disabled. The predominant view is you are disabled if you cannot work and live on disability benefits. Around half of people with diagnosed disabilities can and do work, and most of them do not view themselves as disabled.

drspouse · 14/06/2022 15:17

"Having a trans history" is the Trojan horse in the Census, for example.
Someone who is male and thinks they are a woman can say "I'm a woman, I'm female, my sex is female, look at my legal fiction birth certificate, oh by the way I have a trans history".
It's the ultimate in gaslighting.

FemaleAndLearning · 14/06/2022 14:47

GCRich · 14/06/2022 14:29

Surely also utterly pointless as well. Sexual orientation is defined in relation to what sex you are attracted to. By definition you can be attracted to men, or women, or both. There can be no other way that your attraction is orientated.

Anything else is a preference. Saying you are pansexual says nothing - other than you like more than one sex therefore are bisexual with a trans rights activist mindset.

I totally agree. It should just be factual and I wouldn't want to compromise given the choice.

KittenKong · 14/06/2022 14:45

History or trans eh… I’d be tempted to use the free text box to explain the history of the steam powered train. I often misread things.

FemaleAndLearning · 14/06/2022 14:43

Apologies forgot the screenshot

Survey at work
GCRich · 14/06/2022 14:30

It is OUTRAGEOUS that any questionaire assumes that you have a gender identity... but as I say, seen much worse. My professional regulation organisation thinks intersex, male and female are gender identities.

GCRich · 14/06/2022 14:29

FemaleAndLearning · 14/06/2022 14:26

Sexual orientation in the Equality Act www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/12

As a kindness they could as to self describe, but pointless because not protected!

Surely also utterly pointless as well. Sexual orientation is defined in relation to what sex you are attracted to. By definition you can be attracted to men, or women, or both. There can be no other way that your attraction is orientated.

Anything else is a preference. Saying you are pansexual says nothing - other than you like more than one sex therefore are bisexual with a trans rights activist mindset.

IamAporcupine · 14/06/2022 14:26

FemaleAndLearning · 14/06/2022 14:14

I would say that is good clear question on sex. You could push for 'no gender identity' option on the gender idenity question to be fully inclusive! Like they ask religion on the census. Or it could be a two part question, 1a do you have a gender identity (yes, no, prefer not to say) 1b if yes, are you a transwoman, transman, non binary prefer not to say, prefer to self describe.

Actually, the gender identity one was:

What is your gender identity:
Man
Woman
Non-binary
Another
Prefer not to say

I am guessing the majority of respondents just go with man/woman as that is what they are....

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GCRich · 14/06/2022 14:26

IamAporcupine · 14/06/2022 14:20

@GCRich I agree with you that the sex/religion/ethnicity questions were fair enough. I think it was the emphasis on the (unquestionable) gender identity, the trans 'history' and the long list under sexuality that got me annoyed.

I had to check again - the options were: heterosexual, gay, lesbian, bisexual, asexual, pansexual, another sexuality and prefer not to say.

Why gay and lesbian? Surely if the question says same sex attracted then you know whether they are a gay man or a lesbian from the sex question?

I'd love to know how pansexual differs from bisexual given that there are only two sexes.

I don't believe that asexual is an orientation - it is either a lack of sex drive within an orientation, or it is a lack of orientation.

I'm with you.... but I have seen a lot worse!

FemaleAndLearning · 14/06/2022 14:26

IamAporcupine · 14/06/2022 14:20

@GCRich I agree with you that the sex/religion/ethnicity questions were fair enough. I think it was the emphasis on the (unquestionable) gender identity, the trans 'history' and the long list under sexuality that got me annoyed.

I had to check again - the options were: heterosexual, gay, lesbian, bisexual, asexual, pansexual, another sexuality and prefer not to say.

Sexual orientation in the Equality Act www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/12

As a kindness they could as to self describe, but pointless because not protected!

FemaleAndLearning · 14/06/2022 14:21

Also disability has a clear definition which should be used in my opinion.
Do you have a physical or mental impairment that has a ‘substantial’ and ‘long-term’ negative effect on your ability to do normal daily activities.

www.gov.uk/definition-of-disability-under-equality-act-2010

Why these people make up their own questions when the equality act specifies them I'll never know.

IamAporcupine · 14/06/2022 14:20

@GCRich I agree with you that the sex/religion/ethnicity questions were fair enough. I think it was the emphasis on the (unquestionable) gender identity, the trans 'history' and the long list under sexuality that got me annoyed.

I had to check again - the options were: heterosexual, gay, lesbian, bisexual, asexual, pansexual, another sexuality and prefer not to say.

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FemaleAndLearning · 14/06/2022 14:19

The question on trans should reflect gender reassignment of the Equality Act.
Something like are you under going, have undergone or proposing to undergo gender reassignment.
Perhaps they should list all the protected characteristic questions first, as listed in the Equality Act, followed by additional questions (caring, gender identity etc). That's what I would do and refer to the PC in the introduction. Makes it clear why they are being asked.
I wouldn't expect them to ask questions on the PCs of maternity/pregnancy or civil/marriage as apparently these are managed differently under the act.