Pronouns in maths exams

Blimey the very fact that we now have kids who "don't see themselves as a boy ir a girl" shows just how completely batshit this gender stuff is. I could "see myself" as a blonde 6ft supermodel but I wouldn't get offended if a model agency refused to employ me!! When I worked in a mental health setting there was a patient who thought he was Jesus. Strangely enough it wasn't best practice to worship at his feet or nail him to a cross.

I am horrified by the damage that is being done to naive and impressionable teenagers with all this crap and dismayed by the fact that adults who are well aware that biological sex is a fact rather than an idea are enabling it.

Not read the full thread but I have noticed this ideology in exam papers too. There was a GCSE maths question about ratio with red and blue sweets or something. Usually they would be shared between boys and girls in the question. It's now children and adults. This slightly changes the feeling / context of the question so is off-putting and jarring.

I have also seen a BTEC Heath & Social question with a scenario about a transgender person. It was written with the assumption of a belief that people can change sex.

If a question has been phrased so that there is legitimate confusion over correct calculations of course this should be addressed.

As I have said repeatedly, it is perfectly possible to phrase questions so that this is not the case.

Or just use he and him, she and her...the imaginary person will not flounce out of the exam paper if they have a sexed pronoun to describe themselves [as they don't actually exist].

Maths exams are there to test knowledge of maths, not gender ideology. In the current climate of confusion about pronouns, if I had to set an exam, I'd be using pronouns as little as possible. It is clunky to repeat names but it's clear.

So now even non-existent humans in imagined situations need to have neutral pronouns, even if it confuses people so much that you are not testing maths any more, you are testing adherence to ideology.

And it's not a cult?

I have a DD who would be confused by mixing pronouns in maths questions. She has dyslexia and various processing issues. Any unnecessary confusion would be yet one more thing to worry her.

Just because a few pupils have gender issues, doesn't mean that gender confusion needs to be brought into GCSE exams.

From the OP:
‘So there was they their, he him and she her. A few of my fellow scribes said that their candidates were confused by the wording of the questions (especially the they/theirs, the kids thought there were more than one person being talked about).’

That’s not ‘no possible confusion’.

I hope I didn't come across as being critical! I was just so pleased with myself for finally working it out I couldn't resist showing off. If I'd got up at 4am for work I'd be so knackered I'd be incapable of any rational thought.

I said I have students who don't see themselves as boy or girl. Which I think is acceptable.

But they are either boys or girls. I don't have a problem with children or people requesting gender neutral language but it shouldn't be at the expense of understanding. And, for those of us who were brought up with the student always being "he", we know that it's hard to imagine yourself in situations where the male default is always used. It feels like we have gone full circle and the progressives are trying to make women and girls invisible again.

I meant to write a third but in my defence I got up for work at 4am this morning.

Can you not just reuse the name - Robyn pays £21 for the jacket.

The point of maths exams isn't to teach about gender issues it's to test maths. This way you are not offending anyone but are also clear it is one person you are talking about.

I have noticed over the past few years that I don't feel comfortable repeatedly delivering such questions when there are so many students to who don't see themselves as boy or girl.

@MissPeregrinesHome I don't see myself as an emperor penguin (for some reason), but I've never had difficulty answering a question about how many fish one has caught. It's a maths question, it doesn't have to be relatable, it just has to be clearly understood.

Padma's been short-changed there! 2.5 sweets - complain to the manufacturer about the defective one. Also, send her on assertiveness training so she gets her full share next time, unless she confirms she actively didn't want more.

<misses point of thread>

"John, Sean and Padma are sharing out some sweets. John gets six, Sean gets four. Padma's share equals a fifth of the total. How much do they get?"

Does the examiner want to know how much Padma got, or how much all three of them got in total? @suggestionsplease1

Robyn buys a jacket in a sale.
The jacket has been reduced in price by 15%
They pay £21.25 for the jacket.

But here there is only one jacket, so although 'they' to my mind is awkward there is no confusion. Contrast that with the first question about the inheritance where it wasn't clear who they (the exam setters, plural) were asking about.

So what you are saying though appears to be that one subset of children - those with gender issues - have to be prioritised over other groups of children, those with special needs, English as not a first language, just those whose reading comprehension is not as good as their (plural) mathematical ability.

One solution would be for society to make up a new pronoun as I believe has been done in Sweden.

Wokerygonemad A has 3 apples
Wokerygonemad B has 12 oranges
Easy

@MissyCooperismyShero you don't seem to have understood what I said in my post.

I said I have students who don't see themselves as boy or girl. Which I think is acceptable.

When "they" is used to refer to a singular person is it conjugated with is or are? If the verb is plural, I can't see how it wouldn't create unnecessary confusion during an exam. I have stopped reading many things once I encounter "they" in reference to a person that wasn't readily clear as it's too much of a needless irritant, unfortunately that option isn't available to students

You seriously have GCSE students who don't know what genitalia they have?

Maths teacher here. Sorry haven't read the whole thread but wanted to comment that I have noticed that many of the qus in maths gcse exams are very traditional and involve numbers of boys / girls in year groups etc etc. I have noticed over the past few years that I don't feel comfortable repeatedly delivering such questions when there are so many students to who don't see themselves as boy or girl. The questions feel dated. So I may be alone in saying that I think it is a good thing. Would a misunderstanding of them/their really lead to a misunderstanding of the maths aspect of the question? Agree that students who have additional needs with language need as much support as they can get, but I think that the use of they / them pronouns could be included without this being a problem.

For example

Robyn buys a jacket in a sale.
The jacket has been reduced in price by 15%
They pay £21.25 for the jacket.

How much did the jacket cost originally?

I don't see how the use of a they pronoun causes any confusion about the question.
However, it acknowledges they existence of those who use they them pronouns. Many of whom are struggling with bullying and prejudice.

For any 14 or 15 year who isn't already aware of this usage (and there really can't be many of them left) it is a 2 minute explanation of how this might be used and it would have come up in preparation for exams and practice papers.

No it wouldn't, because this hasn't come up in papers before as far as I am aware and isn't on the maths syllabus.

You think that’s remotely the same as following basic written English grammar? What a category confusion.

Perhaps if we would only all lobby for the use of “innit” in student essays and The Times Style Guide, all our social injustices will be solved! Who would have thought it; so easy!

Times change, and the world catches up, who knew?

I am sure your 'elite' university had some questionable research, teaching, practices, customs and exam papers some centuries or decades ago. And not least in their attitudes to female students perhaps. Are you advocating that it persists in these now too?

Also:

Exam papers should reflect the common present English usage.

@suggestionsplease1 distinction between singular and plural pronouns is common present English usage. “They” might have become a fad amongst teenagers and on Twitter, but actually the exam is departing from this by using it as a singular pronoun. The singular “they” remains grammatically incorrect in written English usage (and I mark finals literature and history exams in an “elite” university, where we still treat it as a grammatical error, because it still is one. It is not yet standard correct English).