Pronouns in maths exams

I remember a big fuss when I was at school because there was a maths exam question about calculating the area of the gable end of a house. The fuss was because not everyone knew exactly what was meant by the gable end. I seem to remember the advice (afterwards) being that in case of confusion, demonstrate what you thought the gable end was (ie draw the shape) then show your calculations about that. At least by showing your thinking you could be marked on your method and accuracy and hopefully not penalized for it knowing what a gable end was.

Anyway, my point is that exams need to be as clear as possible to avoid unnecessary confusion and further stress in what is already a stressful situation.

People may want to bury their heads in the sand but maybe they should chat to some 14-16 years olds instead.

Lots of us have teens. Most of them aren't immersed in this weird pronoun bubble.

Of course it matters.

And that is why the questions will be written in such a way that no confusion is possible.

How old are you out of interest?

Many people taking GCSEs are adult learners returning to education in later life, even attempting to gain qualifications in prison etc., so age should be irrelevant here suggestions.

You're just making yourself look stupid now.

If a question in a maths exam could be interpreted as either singular or plural then it's a problem because there is only one correct answer to maths questions and some students will get it wrong because the language isn't clear. One mark can make a difference between grades or between a pass and a fail.

It matters.

The exam papers will have been written so that there is no possible confusion over the number of characters referred to for calculations of answers.

You will be aware of course, that it is perfectly possible to do this.

Exam papers should reflect the common present English usage.

People may want to bury their heads in the sand but maybe they should chat to some 14-16 years olds instead.

How long before this starts infecting Biology papers?

Edexcel asked students taking a GCSE paper last month to identify the “gender” shown by a set of chromosomes, then told them to show how “gender is inherited” from parents.

Ha! When both sides would say you're wrong perhaps you need to rethink!

Long term readers of this board might remember this little gem from 2019.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scientists-fail-edexcel-exam-board-for-confusing-sex-and-gender-in-its-gcse-exam-28hxv9c9d

It is confusing. We often use “they” in informal speech as a singular or general pronoun: that’s been the case for a long time. Correct grammatical use in the formal written register, however, uses singular and plural pronouns. There are good reasons for this, including clarity and precision. In informal speech “they” can often also be used as a deictic as well as a pronoun, which clarifies the referent of the pronoun (in informal speech we are also far more used to pronouns that might not always agree with their referents). But it’s important for the referent of a pronoun to be clear in formal usage, especially when readers require clear rules and instructions.

We’ve all managed to separate formal and informal usage in many different forms for centuries and centuries. It would be stupid to write a GCSE maths paper in textspeak, no? It would be distracting and confusing. We manage to recognise that with no problem. Same with informal vs formal uses of pronouns. An exam requires clear and grammatically correct language.

(Not to mention that the singular “they” has long been a marker of poor literacy in formal writing. Fine if you want to try to change that, but an exam isn’t the place for it.)

I was invigilating a small group of students taking the OCR maths paper this morning. There were at least a couple of questions which used 'they' instead of he/she. It's at best unnecessary and at worst confusing.

i said this would cause problems wa called transphobic

getting ridiculous

Maths and English papers are difficult enough without making them unnecessarily confusing

Of course they do. Pronoun people are a little sect that the normal world mainly ignores.

Additionally I have read many professionally written articles in major newspapers where 'the grammar' does not make it as clear as it could be how many people are referred to by 'they' - and it's the fact that it COULD be written more clearly, but the choice has been taken not to (or they haven't realised) that adds to the confusion as to the meaning.

I am sure of I took a maths paper to my 90 year old aunt she would balk at the - 'unusual & foreign-to-her' names that are used in it.

If you think that is the issue then - as per usual - you have missed the point, or are dishonestly pretending that you have.

Can I please ask people to think about whether it's worth engaging with someone who pops up to derail about irrelevant issues?

OP, I know plenty of people who would be thrown by using 'they' to refer to one person enough that they would be less sure what the question was.

I think you'll find that the 'normal' (your word) people presently undertaking GCSEs have no difficult whatsoever with this concept.

I don’t agree. A school pretending that normal people refer to a person of known sex as “they” has though.

There is nothing rude about expecting a school to adequately prepare their students for the examinations they have decided to enter them into based on their abilities.

If you feel you have a child that has been failed in this respect I would complain to your school that they haven't done the groundwork needed.

You are just being rude now.
You should probably stop.

How old are you out of interest?

I am sure of I took a maths paper to my 90 year old aunt she would balk at the - 'unusual & foreign-to-her' names that are used in it. She would turn to me and say "Why is this necessary, why don't they just keep the language simple so everybody can understand it more easily? If a maths exam could be made clearer why isn't it? It's not a test of my English for heaven's sake!

Her teenage grandchildren who are taking the papers will of course just roll their eyes, because there is nothing unusual for them. The language they see reflects their lived experience, and even if it doesn't reflect their immediate lived experience they are of the age where they know what is inferred. I had names I had never seen in my maths papers. Funnily enough enough I didn't get any calculations wrong because of that.

And I can't imagine for one second questions have been set in such a way where the number of characters was in question for the correct calculation of an answer.

@suggestionsplease1 It's the ambiguity that may be created using they, their instead of he, she that causes problems. They/their is used to indicate the plural in the majority of day to day usage.

@suggestionsplease1 It's the ambiguity that may be created using they, their instead of he, she that causes problems. They/their is used to indicate the plural in the majority of day to day usage.

I advise in the area of SEN thanks.

Then you should have some fucking awareness and empathy.

When I took O levels, I was at an international
School overseas in a country that had different norms to the UK. I don't live there now but the pronoun thing would be confusing for a country where you can't identify as non binary.

Also you can't assume that every candidate is on social media and aware of non binary people. Most UK teens might know about non/binary pronouns because of the internet but it is unreasonable to assume all will. I have teenagers and only one has met a real life binary person- the other only knows about pronouns because of social media.