Page 3 | Debate on Parliament TV now on trans conversion therapy

chilling19 · 2022-06-13T15:34:08+00:00

On now. Already had hate from both sides comment.

Original poster

chilling19 · 13/06/2022 18:13

achillestoes · 13/06/2022 18:12

Yes, I don’t know who they mean by ‘quacks’ - it’s deliberately obfuscatory language. Do they mean people with counselling qualifications?

I don't think they know

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achillestoes · 13/06/2022 18:13

So this latest one says it doesn’t affect consultations with ‘qualified medical professionals’. That means doctors and psychiatrists?

So is everyone else a quack?

Original poster

chilling19 · 13/06/2022 18:13

Conversion therapy = one intended outcome .

Err, is that not the affirmation model?

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achillestoes · 13/06/2022 18:12

Yes, I don’t know who they mean by ‘quacks’ - it’s deliberately obfuscatory language. Do they mean people with counselling qualifications?

Original poster

chilling19 · 13/06/2022 18:12

Anyone got details of quackery?

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Original poster

chilling19 · 13/06/2022 18:10

Encouraging someone down the path without provision of information dereliction of duty. Cass review.

Duty of care - should not be coerced, or influenced into a particular position.

Glad that this debate has identified the difference between quackery and professional therapy,

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FOJN · 13/06/2022 18:08

Another speaker - smacks of the Soviet Union

Possibly but not in the way they think.

Are these absolute nutters our elected representatives?

Are definitions a form of oppression now?

Thanks for doing this OP.

achillestoes · 13/06/2022 18:08

I’m barking up the wrong tree - what he’s saying is that the children are being denied the proper information, and he’s right.

achillestoes · 13/06/2022 18:07

I see. But in the case of cancer treatment, it’s have the treatment (and risk infertility) or lose your life, isn’t it? No child is denied cancer treatment because they can’t absorb the implications of a decision about being rendered infertile. If they can’t understand the content properly, their parents make the decision because the illness will kill them otherwise. It’s not comparable at all.

Original poster

chilling19 · 13/06/2022 18:07

OK we are back.

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AnotherDayAnotherView · 13/06/2022 18:06

achillestoes · 13/06/2022 18:05

And yes, some young people can deal with the dreadful news that they are likely to or definitely going to die. That’s because that news is emotionally complex but not factually complex. It’s also not a choice, so some will deal with it well and some won’t, but it won’t make a difference to the outcome. It does make a difference in the case of puberty blockers, because if they don’t understand, they can’t legally consent.

Indeed, it was a crass comparison

Original poster

chilling19 · 13/06/2022 18:06

Just to confirm - this debate is happening despite no definition of trans, conversion therapy or harmful practices.

Only JDP has said that the definition of therapy needs to be carefully looked at as a response to a consensus around the table that there is a raft of quacks and charlatans currently forcing trans people into harmful pathways.

The latest speaker was trying to make a point about not affirming anorexics, but then the proceedings were suspended due to sound issues.

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achillestoes · 13/06/2022 18:05

And yes, some young people can deal with the dreadful news that they are likely to or definitely going to die. That’s because that news is emotionally complex but not factually complex. It’s also not a choice, so some will deal with it well and some won’t, but it won’t make a difference to the outcome. It does make a difference in the case of puberty blockers, because if they don’t understand, they can’t legally consent.

AnotherDayAnotherView · 13/06/2022 18:04

He is trying to make the case that children who have cancer may have fertility issues and that lessons can be learned about the preservation of sperm and ova for children on puberty blockers i.e. if children with cancer are given this option then children who are prescribed puberty blockers should also have this option - I think that is what he was trying to say...

achillestoes · 13/06/2022 18:03

‘How do you make a law not to affect someone's gender identity, if you can't define it?’

I don’t know.

Original poster

chilling19 · 13/06/2022 18:02

Someone else - mention of not affirming anorexia.

Clinical practice and academic research - maximise who they are and supporting journey. Informed consent (big sigh from someone) important. (Someone laughing). Young people are absolutely able to deal with complex information. Should look at this in relation to . Looking at when consent is not possible...

Sound - suspend per sitting to reconnect sound.

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achillestoes · 13/06/2022 18:02

I thought the proposed ban wasn’t going to cover under 18s.

Datun · 13/06/2022 18:02

achillestoes · 13/06/2022 17:58

No, and Alicia Kearns specifically went out of her way to say gender identity won’t be defined in the bill, so nobody need worry about that. 🙄

How do you make a law not to affect someone's gender identity, if you can't define it?

achillestoes · 13/06/2022 18:00

Why are they suddenly talking about kids and cancer and puberty blockers?

AnotherDayAnotherView · 13/06/2022 17:58

I still do not have sound and one of the people I wanted to hear from has left..

achillestoes · 13/06/2022 17:58

No, and Alicia Kearns specifically went out of her way to say gender identity won’t be defined in the bill, so nobody need worry about that. 🙄

Original poster

chilling19 · 13/06/2022 17:56

AnotherDayAnotherView · 13/06/2022 17:56

Has anyone actually bothered to define what is meant by "gender identity" or "transgender" yet? If not why not - these terms mean different things to different people

No

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Original poster

chilling19 · 13/06/2022 17:56

Ok sound back

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AnotherDayAnotherView · 13/06/2022 17:56

Has anyone actually bothered to define what is meant by "gender identity" or "transgender" yet? If not why not - these terms mean different things to different people

catandcoffee · 13/06/2022 17:55

How convenient lost sound 🤔