Men Loitering in Women's Spaces

@sittingnexttochoppysea I've never said it'd be convenient for me, I don't have children actually. I'm saying I wouldn't be bothered if a father was in loo taking his young daughters to the toilet. That's not him being a perv, it's a person trying to parent.

But do you accept that many other women would have a problem with there being a random man in there, and that his desire to 'parent' his way should not override the desire of many women for privacy and dignity in ladies toilets?

The man may have been in the ladies with his daughters, but I don't think it is generally speaking a place where men should be. Imagine how embarrassing it'd be for a teen to change sanitary products in a cubicle where the door didn't cover the doorway, knowing that he could hear everything.

Feckedupbundle · Today 13:55
I used to work in a lingerie department many moons ago. After that experience, I would check very carefully and rarely bought anything that is displayed on a hanger on the shop floor. We used to have to bin stock that had been ejaculated on,it was vile.

Eugh! That is so grim. I'm glad I order mostly online and will wash everything before wearing it.

I've never said it'd be convenient for me, I don't have children actually. I'm saying I wouldn't be bothered if a father was in loo taking his young daughters to the toilet. That's not him being a perv, it's a person trying to parent.

Don't want children to see penis but ok for man (standing next to sink with his children) to be in ladies loo isn't really the same thing though is it? Unless you usually go to the loo with the door open!

I would rather go in the ladies with my DH and kids than the mens where the men are stood in a line with their penis' out , plus the smell (due to urinals) in mens toilets is horrendous. So given the choice of the two, womens every time.

But we don't care what you would rather. Men do not belong in the women's toilets no matter how much more convenient it is for you.

Don't have children if you can't be bothered to take them to the toilet. Or at least stay at home.

I find it completely baffling that you don't want to see penises but think the solution to this is for your husband to be in the ladies.

That's fine. But you have no right to 'OK' men being in women's spaces on behalf of all other women. You may think it is not a big deal but to many it is.

I guess we disagree. You have your opinion I have mine. That's life.

Before you got to the toilet it's highly likely the man had been helping his wife with the two kids going to the toilet

Absolute rubbish. No excuse or reason.

Any one of the following would be better

• man takes one or 2 children into the mens


• woman takes one child in whilst man waits with other, then comes out and swaps children, then leaves both with man whilst she goes back alone


• woman takes 2 children into cubicle

Oh and not to mention the other thing being normalised:

If some males can be in female spaces then what the hell, any male can, I want to, I need to and other males do, so here I am.

There has never been any kind of admission or recognition in TQ+ politics that they are busily normalising and empowering males to believe:

• any male in female spaces at any time is fine, and don't dare question them because they MIGHT have justifiable reasons for making you very uncomfortable

• it's fine to tell women to shut up, deal with discomfort and not give a damn about them

• Upsetting and excluding women is a fun thing to do and very fashionable at the moment

• Kinks and fetishes, let it all hang out, no one can tell you to stop any more. Especially a female.

Yes of course females are going to pay the price for this, we've been explaining from the start. But zero fucks are given because this is in essence a fantastically irresponsible, self centred and misogynist male rights movement. Please see the overwhelming evidence if you think I'm exaggerating.

I would rather go in the ladies with my DH and kids than the mens where the men are stood in a line with their penis' out , plus the smell (due to urinals) in mens toilets is horrendous. So given the choice of the two, womens every time.

Leave your husband outside then, you do not have the right to breach other women's boundaries because it's convenient for you. Men NEVER use to go into ladies loos but they've been fathers for as long as the human race has existed.

I would rather go in the ladies with my DH and kids than the mens where the men are stood in a line with their penis' out , plus the smell (due to urinals) in mens toilets is horrendous. So given the choice of the two, womens every time.

As a woman too I know that you can spot a creep, but you can't assume all men are.

No one has ever said all men are. If the creeps were always obvious or were kind enough to wear a badge identifying themselves then we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Until every man who is a threat to women becomes identifiable on sight then I'll continue to assume the worst rather than hope for the best. I prioritise my safety over a man's feelings.

Before you got to the toilet it's highly likely the man had been helping his wife with the two kids going to the toilet. That would just make him thoughtless for not taking the kids outside while she then went.

It was the ladies toilets, he should not have been in there at all. It's funny how the women's toilet becomes the default for anyone who doesn't fancy using the men's. If helping two children go to the toilet required both parents then they could just as easily have used the men's but they didn't and they never do.

It doesn't mean he was hanging around in there to take his spot in a womens space. He was being a father. If he was stood there with no kids you'd have a point, under the circumstances I'd have just said "would you mind waiting with the kids outside ".

I quite honestly don't care what excuse men make for being in the ladies loos, it's entitled behaviour and they need to fuck off. Should every father be allowed to use the ladies loos when they're out with their children regardless of how women feel? Whether he had kids with him or not is irrelevant, it erodes boundaries and normalises behaviour which could then put women at risk. Standing around in a space he had no right to use just shows a complete lack of awareness and respect.

It is not a woman's responsibility to tolerate feeling uncomfortable because a man finds their facilities preferable or more convenient.

I used to work in a lingerie department many moons ago. After that experience, I would check very carefully and rarely bought anything that is displayed on a hanger on the shop floor. We used to have to bin stock that had been ejaculated on,it was vile.

@Pandaparty so if op thought this then she would have met his 'laser stare' and said something, or at least said something to a member of staff if not comfortable confronting herself. Coming on here two weeks later to moan about it and insinuating it's a whole 'men' problem isn't going to achieve anything. She's just hoping for another pile on of how awful men are thread. This is the reason why we women who want safe spaces are being regarded as right wing loons, because rather than a sensible conversation it becomes them against us. There are circumstances when a father may need to enter female toilets, there are circumstances when a man will innocently be in a lingerie department. If you genuinely think that at the moment you see a situation it's actually genuinely is improper, call it out in the moment.

I would not want to take a wee knowing a man stood near the cubicle could hear everything. It would be embarrassing and uncomfortable.

How can you reliably tell the difference? Which guys are just 'going about their day', which are the perverts? My rule of thumb is blokes in women's toilets, changing rooms, etc. shouldn't get the benefit of the doubt.

I think it's a bit of a leap to say that a poster's husband feeling awkward would be interpreted by other shoppers as him being shifty/creepy.
Loads of men go clothes shopping with their wives and girlfriends and you can tell they don't feel thrilled about it and would rather not be there. You see them sitting on chairs by the door or holding the bags and wearily following their wife round. They manage to avoid looking creepy by not leering at other women or making inappropriate comments to other women. The OP specifically said it was the man staring at women buying lingerie that she found creepy.

I think that when people post on these boards they forget that the sobs that are bringing up are the same as the very men that get so much vitriol for just going about their day. They're not always being perverts!!

As a woman too I know that you can spot a creep, but you can't assume all men are. Before you got to the toilet it's highly likely the man had been helping his wife with the two kids going to the toilet. That would just make him thoughtless for not taking the kids outside while she then went. It doesn't mean he was hanging around in there to take his spot in a womens space. He was being a father. If he was stood there with no kids you'd have a point, under the circumstances I'd have just said "would you mind waiting with the kids outside ".

But he didn't offer to stay outside with the kids did he?

The creepy bloke that stood behind me and commented on my choices in M&S, while his wife was only 5-10 meters away at the other side of the lingerie department?

Yes. Judging by his comments, I think he will.

This was 10-15 years ago and it still pisses me off. I took one step back and trod very hard on his foot (I wish I had been wearing stilettos) and then reported him to the staff.