LGB Alliance to plan helpline with Lottery funding

By the way, Starlee. You never answered after I asked for clarity about your 'Try reading your comment again and tell me you're trans supportive!' statement.

I will ask them again.

So... being trans supportive means ignoring that there are some trans people and some trans activists (many who are not trans) who are making outrageously hateful statements and not being called out for them?

Being trans supportive means ignoring that these statements are being made and then echoed by a large group while declaring that the community is wonderfully 'inclusive' and everything is based on love and happiness?

I mean, really. Do you believe that calling males out on their statements about women is not supporting trans people? Why? Because you believe that trans people should not be held accountable for what they say that is truly hateful and misogynistic? Because why?

And do you think ignoring these quotes improves things for young trans people? In any way?

"Most murder is boring, pedestrian, even accidental stuff."

"Somewhere between a third and a half result from too much alcohol. A high proportion are domestic violence 'gone wrong'. A blow struck one time too many: an egg shell skull"

Jane Fae

(twitter 26/3/2018)
(thankfully Fae has not been all that active since posting this. And quipped:

*I had only to suggest that murder was not some sort of high end glamour crime, and the cisterhood went ballistic ...

But Fae also has supportively campaigned for legalisation of extreme porn. And iirc (I could be wrong) for the lowering of the age of 'porn' actors.

I most certainly would not call this person inclusive and loving but was wheeled out for years as trans spokesperson on BBC and other UK media.

Actually, they seemed to disappear after a particularly misogynist tweet about why they believed more men were dying of covid than women.

'There are a lot of gay men out here who are gay men as a consolation prize because they couldn't be women. That was certainly true of me'

Juno Dawson

"While I never really believed the cliche about women being good for only one thing, I found that that sentiment kept creeping into my fantasies. I would imagine myself being sold into sex slavery and having strange men take advantage of me."

'It's called forced feminisation, and it's not really about sex, it is about turning the humiliation you feel into pleasure, transforming the loss of male privilege into the best fuck ever"

Julia Serano

Right here are some more of the quotes from transitioned males to show just how 'inclusive' and 'loving' and wonderful the community really is outside whatever bubble some posters live in. I will post them separately in case one is deleted. That way they won't all be deleted. We know that some readers of that board hate these quotes being posted.

"There is something about being treated like shit by men that feels like affirmation itself, like a cry of delight from the deepest cavern of my breast ..."

"To be the victim of honest, undisguised sexism possesses an exhilarating vitality"

Grace Lavery

I question why any person would post a breezy dismissive:

Although puberty blockers do provide huge benefits for the long term outcome of transitioning. The biggest regret of most trans people is that they weren't able to have puberty blockers.

About the use of puberty blockers. In fact, there is more that I could post links to, but I haven't.

Just as I would question any person who posts the below about what should and should not be a high standard of care for young people:

An lgba helpline really aren't going to tell any trans kids who who aren't sure that they really are trans, they will tell them they are gay or lesbian which can only cause harm to the trans kids..

And doubles down on it like it is something to be proud to support.

And then tries to shame anybody pointing out just how dangerous and harmful this is with:

Maybe you should get together with Helleofabore and a few others who appeared horrified that a helpline would tell anyone what they are, you need to get your stories straight to avoid another 20 pages of deciding which of you is right!

Bone density

Bone Health in the Transgender Population

Rothman & Iwamoto

2nd July 2019

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6709704/

Also unknown are the long-term effects of puberty blockade, the effect of changes in body composition and the optimal type, timing, dosage, and route of administration of GAHT for bone outcomes.

And

GnRH analogues are frequently employed to provide puberty blockade in adolescents with gender incongruence or gender dysphoria. From their use in other medical conditions such as prostate cancer, their deleterious effects on the bone are well known, although these have the potential to be reversible if treatments are stopped or add back therapies can be given

And

However, Z-scores in the trans boys also showed an expected drop during GnRHa treatment. Similarly, they did not fully make up their bone loss as Z-scores at age 22 were still lower than baseline

Meaning, the authors acknowledge little is known about the lasting effects of puberty blockers. In this study, they propose some positive effect from cross sex hormones for females but ths results show that it doesn’t really make up the loss from puberty blockers.

This goes is a good explainer of the above study.

segm.org/the_effect_of_puberty_blockers_on_the_accrual_of_bone_mass

1st May 2021

Dr Michael Biggs has been calling for the release of data from the Tavistock’s experiment since 2019. A subset of the data were finally released following the judicial review into puberty suppression at the Tavistock clinic. Biggs’ reanalysis has just been published in the Journal of Paediatric Endocrinology and Metabolism. It finds that after two years on GnRHa, the Z-scores for a significant minority of the children had declined to a level that should trigger clinical concern.

Also look for the Swedish documentary The Trans Train

And

www.svtplay.se/video/33358590/uppdrag-granskning/mission-investigate-trans-children-avsnitt-1?id=jp9dBRA

After 4 years on blockers 'Leo' hasn't grown, has osteopenia, spinal fractures and is in constant pain. 12 children in Stockholm have 'healthcare-acquired injuries' from blockers.

More from Sweden

lakartidningen.se/aktuellt/nyheter/2022/02/socialstyrelsen-unga-ska-bara-fa-hormonbehandling-i-undantagsfall/

This might also be interesting.

The Swedish U-Turn on Gender Transitioning for Children

This is an article about the Swedish government addressing the rapid increase, as seen many other countries, and how the referrals plummeted after measures were brought in.

genderreport.ca/the-swedish-u-turn-on-gender-transitioning/

Again, always look back to the original source of any data.

here is that Australian study again.

Published April 22, 2021
Kasia Kozlowska, Georgia McClure et al

Australian children and adolescents with gender dysphoria: Clinical presentations and challenges experienced by a multidisciplinary team and gender service

journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/26344041211010777

Baker, K. E., et al, (2021) Hormone Therapy, Mental Health and Quality of Life Among Transgender People: A Systematic Review. Journal of the Endocrine Society.

academic.oup.com/jes/article/5/4/bvab011/6126016

This was interesting:

Quality of Life

Among adolescents, a mixed-gender prospective cohort (n = 50) showed no difference in QOL scores after a year of endocrine interventions, which included combinations of GnRH analogues and estrogen or testosterone formulations [30]. No study found that hormone therapy decreased QOL scores. We conclude that hormone therapy may improve QOL among transgender people. The strength of evidence for this conclusion is low due to concerns about bias in study designs, imprecision in measurement because of small sample sizes, and confounding by factors such as gender-affirming surgery status.

And this under Depression

Among adolescents, 2 mixed-gender prospective cohorts (n = 50 and n = 23, respectively) showed improvements in depression scores after 1 year of treatment with GnRH analogues and estrogen or testosterone formulations (both P < 0.001) [30, 38]. Another prospective study reported that BDI scores improved almost by half among adolescents (n = 41) after a mean of 1.88 years of treatment with GnRH analogues to delay puberty (P = 0.004) [34]. The overall improvement after several subsequent years of testosterone or estrogen therapy in this cohort (n = 32) was smaller, however, resulting in no significant change from baseline [35]. No study found that hormone therapy increased depression.

Anxiety

Among adolescents, 1 prospective study saw mean anxiety scores in a mixed-gender group (n = 23) improve from 33.0 ± 7.2 to 18.5 ± 8.4 after 1 year (P < 0.001) [38], but another reported no changes in anxiety after approximately 2 years of puberty delay treatment with GnRH analogues and 4 years of hormone therapy (n = 32) [35].

Suicide

The risk of bias for this study was serious due to the difficulty of identifying appropriate comparison groups and uncontrolled confounding by surgery status and socioeconomic variables such as unemployment. We cannot draw any conclusions on the basis of this single study about whether hormone therapy affects death by suicide among transgender people.

I will post some of it for the benefit of the readers anyway.

Latest study from Nederlands about male height.

Trans girls grow tall: adult height is unaffected by GnRH analogue and estradiol treatment

Lidewij Sophia Boogers, Chantal Maria Wiepjes, Daniel Tatting Klink, Ilse Hellinga, Adrianus Sarinus Paulus van Trotsenburg , Martin den Heijer, Sabine Elisabeth Hannema

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35666195/

And both the doctors in this article have confirmed independently that this is their view. For clarity both Dr Marci Bowers and Dr Erica Anderson are both transitioned males providing gender services.

bariweiss.substack.com/p/top-trans-doctors-blow-the-whistle

Top Trans Doctors Blow the Whistle on ‘Sloppy’ Care

In exclusive interviews, two prominent providers sound off on puberty blockers, 'affirmative' care, the inhibition of sexual pleasure, and the suppression of dissent in their field.

A Shier, 4 October 21

France

The latest from National Academy of Medicine, France. They have issued a press release about treatment for gender disphoria in children and adolescents.

SEGM have translated it, but also linked up the original version.

segm.org/France-cautions-regarding-puberty-blockers-and-cross-sex-hormones-for-youth

___

Australia & NZ Psychiatrists warning there is NOT enough evidence for Affirming only treatments or any treatment plan. And warn that medicalisation of children and teens be very careful and thoroughly explored considering the ‘paucity’ of evidence at this time.

www.ranzcp.org/news-policy/policy-and-advocacy/position-statements/gender-dysphoria

August 2021

The interim Cass report from the UK

cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/The-Cass-Review-Interim-Report-Final-Bookmarked.pdf

Some more information on the harm of ANY ORGANISATION TELLING CHILDREN AND TEENS 'WHO THEY ARE'. (FFS)

“ I think this is a bad idea in 99% of circumstances. Professionals who know what they’re doing should be involved; and by not including parents, it ultimately makes the situation worse for the kid (unless the parent is abusive- that’s the 1%). I’ve actually never seen this go well”

www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/11/24/trans-kids-therapy-psychologist/

mobile.twitter.com/drlaurael/status/1462968319636480004

The Washington Post article points out that many clinicians are not following the WPATH guidelines of comprehensive assessment and rmental health support.

The standards of care recommend mental health support and comprehensive assessment for all dysphoric youth before starting medical interventions. The process, done conscientiously, can take a few months (when a young person’s gender has been persistent and there are no simultaneous mental health issues) or up to several years in complicated cases. But few are trained to do it properly, and some clinicians don’t even believe in it, contending without evidence that treating dysphoria medically will resolve other mental health issues. Providers and their behavior haven’t been closely studied, but we find evidence every single day, from our peers across the country and concerned parents who reach out, that the field has moved from a more nuanced, individualized and developmentally appropriate assessment process to one where every problem looks like a medical one that can be solved quickly with medication or, ultimately, surgery. As a result, we may be harming some of the young people we strive to support — people who may not be prepared for the gender transitions they are being rushed into.

(But again... maybe Dr Anderson will be dismissed because they are the wrong sort of 'trans' and don't fully align with Starlee)

www.statsforgender.org/

A good site to check stats (and always check back to original sources where possible from any site)

Argh. For the eleventy millionth time.

It is fine for females to be happy to have sex with TW, that's lovely for them, I wish them well, but they are bi, not lesbian.

Lesbian means female who is exclusively same sex attracted. That is also fine.

The TQ+ agenda wishes first to make lesbian mean nothing more than anyone of any sex who happens to like the sound of that label on themselves, and then to insist that all homosexual women must provide sex to males or be excluded, scolded and coerced into it. That sex isn't something they have a right to choose or enjoy but a social duty to provide to males.

That kind of appalling pathological misogyny is wholly unacceptable. It views females as nothing more than tools in male lives, and that any female not serving a TQ+ agenda is worthless and wrong. Homosexual women are being targeted for a very specific reason in that the feelings coming from having got a solely same sex attracted female to provide sex is the top level of validation. I am not a bloody validation tool for males. They really need to learn to cope with no.

Live and let bloody live. Otherwise as you see, females get increasingly fed up and less and less willing to be polite about the endless onslaught on their rights, words and equality.

This male transgender fantasy of "there is a magic pill but it only works on children" is a vehicle to something very, very unethical.

Yes, the use that middle-aged male transitioners, mostly intact, many fathers, make of hypothetical situations of children, has long been noted.

For the narrative that they've always known, and also the middle aged fantasy of passing as 'young women'.

Again, a phenomenon that anyone can acquaint themselves with by reading the transwidows narratives. So it's good that those stories are being amplified on this thread by various posters.

The biggest regret of most trans people is that they weren't able to have puberty blockers

Which, of course, basically translates to "The biggest regret of most male trans people is that they weren't able to take a magic pill that turned them into someone of the opposite sex."

Of course they fantasise about such a thing. But that projection is not terribly relevant to the ethics or efficacy of an actual procedure on actual children who are not them. Doubly so female children.

This male transgender fantasy of "there is a magic pill but it only works on children" is a vehicle to something very, very unethical.

We have posted one direct quote from her that accuses lesbians of prejudice and an article that reports on a leaked email that hasn’t been published that states she used the analogy using the words ‘sexual racist’.

By the way, no retraction has been published so we have to be able to assume that Nancy Kelley cannot deny sending an email using an analogy using the term ‘sexual racists’.

Because don’t you think it would be in Nancy Kelley’s best interest to have that retracted loudly and very publicly?

Would they really? I don't know anyone, trans or not, who would disagree with any of that. It's just what you think they would say based on anti-trans propaganda

I don’t know anyone who would say it either…thank goodness

but it has been said by people….you just wave it away, and thats ok as you’re entitled to just base stuff on what has personally happened to you (its a bit shortsighted of you but its a normal human think to thing) but dont be telling people that its never been said and its all in our minds

So your position is:

Trans people believe that certain types of soul/psyches etc are (largely) only ever found in male bodies, and other types are found in female bodies.... but you @Starlee disagree with this? (Going by the fact you proclaimed never to have said it when I asked previously).

Or you DO agree with it, because you keep saying it (without questioning or examining how regressive this belief is)?

I genuinely can't even tell what your stance is on it, because you have been so contradictory.

What is absolute rubbish is the tedious regurgitated nonsense spread by TRAs.

To be clear.

Any person hand waving away the health risks associated with puberty blockers needs to accept their part in creating significant health issues in the future for those children.

Plus. It has now been documented that use of puberty blockers does not reduce height significantly either.

plus they may not have the size of penis to invert and still may have to use intestine.

So you end up with a transitioned male with who is perhaps 1 to 1.8 cms shorter than their unrestricted puberty growth would have been (look at Nikki Tutorials). Plus if you read the truth from Dr Marci Bowers, the inability to orgasm, and all the issues of a neo vagina that has a high chance of smelling shockingly bad from the accounts of transitioned males who are desperately unhappy with their inverted penis operations.

All hand waved away by, ‘ Although puberty blockers do provide huge benefits for the long term outcome of transitioning. The biggest regret of most trans people is that they weren't able to have puberty blockers ‘.

It is also hugely telling here that you talk about ‘most’ trans people… but you can only be referring to males. Because females need the growth spurt that occurs around 13-15 to get enough height to avoid being so short. And the additional health risks of the drugs on female bodies is higher. Connective tissue damage leading to teeth falling out, is just the start. But only starts appearing over a decade or much longer after taking the drugs.

You seem to have a very male centric transition view and thus seem to be unaware or just willing to minimise the greater harm to females in the use of puberty blockers.

You also seem to be unaware of the change away from the ‘irreversible’ and ‘just a pause’ thinking. The previously enthusiastically positive narrative that has crumbled away now people got over their fear of being branded as transphobic (or that new ‘anti-trans’ label you use now with still the same little effect).

I would mention even transitioned male clinicians working directly with transitioning people have raised the alarms… but from your past post I can only assume they will be dismissed. Because they are the wrong type of trans person… the ones who don’t agree with you.

Although puberty blockers do provide huge benefits for the long term outcome of transitioning.

Puberty Blockers have a very high risk of other health issues. But I am sure you are fully aware of those.

Such as osteoporosis in both males and females. Such as ligament damage in females.

Countries have started to ban this group of drugs being used for this purpose based on the health risk plus the fact it then has an effect of influencing the teen to progress.

It is a myth that it is ‘fully irreversible’ and it is a myth that ‘it it is just a pause’.

Look up the class action against Lupron. See what effect that drug had on girls where it was used for pausing puberty in cases of precocious puberty. The effects are now well known and publicised.

I am happy to post links to bone density studies, the GIDS testimony in the Bell case, the announcements from other countries banning use OR correcting the previous message that they were completely reversible and without major negative side effects.

I know you won’t read them though.

How about, men who feel entitled to sex, ‘learn to cope’ with no?

We have posted one direct quote from her that accuses lesbians of prejudice and an article that reports on a leaked email that hasn’t been published that states she used the analogy using the words ‘sexual racist’.

What are you denying? And no you have not engaged with this prior to this post which is why yesterday people started reposting all the posts where you were asked about it where the direct quote was also included in the post.

A mature person would now respond with why they don’t interpret what Nancy Kelley said either in the direct quote or in the article about the leaked email.

A dishonest person would continue to try to handwave it away or continue to ignore what Nancy Kelley said.

You also ignored McKinnon’s ‘they will learn to cope’ and the comparison to apartheid by Kathryn McGahy who is not a ‘nobody’ as she had a great deal of influence as to who remained on the bar as a barrister.

Engage with the content that has been give in numerous posts.

Your continued ignoring of it i
has been noted repeatedly and you have now got zero credibility.

Some trans women are lesbians and many cis lesbians are quite happy to date them.

I don't know why GCs (who are usually straight anyway) get so upset about this.

@Hearach15 why do you claim that "GCs" are "usually straight"? Where's your evidence for this? Your statement just seems to indicate that you aren't aware of the wider debate, or indeed that you talk (or listen) to anyone outside your own little bubble.

I'm gender critical, and I'm not straight. If women who previously identified as lesbian find themselves attracted to transwomen, good for them. Relationships between consenting adults are not a problem. What is a problem is then describing these relationships as "lesbian" because they aren't. I - like many other - "get upset" about it because it redefines the word "lesbian" so as to be meaningless. It describes a lesbian as being potentially open to opposite-sex relationships - which of course is not true. This is a real problem because - as many lesbians can testify - lesbians are constantly under pressure to have sex with males. In some places this is straightforward "corrective rape". In other places it's telling lesbians that they are big ol' meanie bigots for excluding males from their dating pool - which unfortunately too many young lesbians take to heart and are traumatised by. We have to hold the line somewhere. It's OK to have a term - lesbian - which describes women who are exclusively same-sex attracted.

So that would be a yes then. You cant accept that lesbians exclude men.

Honestly, if lesbians had a penny for every time their (legally protected) sexual orientation was deemed unacceptable by entitled males...

Tedious isn't the word.

But good for you reading up on transwidows. It's a start.